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Brexit: give me a positive effect (2022 remastered edition) II

Discussion in 'off topic' started by eternumviti, Jun 20, 2022.

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  1. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Great news. I bet KFC Mongolia is an absolutely massive affair. I bet they import whole pallets of chicken at a time.
  2. farfromthesun

    farfromthesun pfm Member

  3. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

  4. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    European Union flags of our allies in Brussels are flying at half mast tonight. Are Bojo and Farage going to come out?
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2022
    Mystic Mac and tuga like this.
  5. billo

    billo pfm Member

    I read that they have a massive total of 11 KFC outlets in the whole country, that's less than either Liverpool, Sheffield, or Manchester
    Also do you think that our Avian flu might put a spanner in the works?
  6. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Well, precisely. They'll get all they need from China or Thailand.
    Avian flu is not "ours" , it's a global problem. Birds migrate, remember. All chicken flocks in the UK are now indoors to control AI, which gives a problem for free range supply but is best to control the disease. In addition the UK, as part of an EU law hangover has control zones for meat grown, processed or transported through infection zones, making it safer than meat not so protected.
  7. laughingboy

    laughingboy pfm Member

    Javier Marías, the renowned Spanish writer, died of COVID at the weekend, which led me to read an interview in The Paris Review from 2018. He describes Brexit:

    "Brexit is appalling. Britain has been part of my life ever since I was a child and I watched all the World War II films that were made in the fifties and early sixties. One of my first books, of course, was Treasure Island. Richmal Crompton [...] had a series of books for children, the Just William stories, and I read them passionately. In fact, I think that one of the reasons why I became a writer was on account of her and her Just William books. I can’t understand how the British voted the way they did, and I think it’s quite a tragedy, mainly for Britain but also for the rest of Europe. I’m a great defender of the European Union, even if it has many flaws and too much bureaucracy. I think it’s one of the great inventions of history. There were always wars between the European countries, but since 1945, with the exception of the Balkan Wars, we have had no wars between ourselves. That’s quite extraordinary, considering the bloody history of this continent. It’s unbelievable that a country as important as Britain thinks of torpedoing that project, which is one of the best and wisest things ever done, I think. Whenever I see young people longing for an epic, telling the people of my generation, You had an epic fight against Francoism, I always say, Well, it’s not something to be envied, to tell the truth. I suppose it’s normal for young people to long for the epic. I tell them, You have an epic here—defend the European Union."
    Rob998, ff1d1l and kendo like this.
  8. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    Noble sentiments, but a bit of a muddle, really, mostly premised upon a rather fantastic illusion of what the EU actually is. It certainly had nothing to do with either Just William, or Treasure Island, (or indeed Shakespeare or Jane Austin) the legacies of which remain exactly as they were, Brexit or no Brexit. And then there's the old trope about the EU 'keeping the peace' in Europe, and the standard wishy-washy acknowledgement that the EU 'isn't perfect' and is maybe just a bit over-bureaucratic.

    Nice, cuddly brotherhood of nations stuff, but hardly a serious critique of the EU, or Brexit for that matter.
    Spraggons Den likes this.
  9. palindrome

    palindrome Thru a hedge, backwards and forwards.

    Kirk likes this.
  10. laughingboy

    laughingboy pfm Member

    It's not a 'serious critique', it's an avowed anglophile expressing sorrow that the UK has distanced itself from a common European project, a project that has coincided with the cessation of war among European nations - something literally without historical precedent. Correlation is not causation, but since more plausible explanations are thin on the ground, it looks like a reasonable working assumption that the European project at least contributed to the era of peace.

    I think where you and I differ on the EU is that while I can see most of the faults you ascribe to it (including the Euro, but excluding your oddly personal animus against figures like Guy Verhofstadt), I am open to the possibility that the 'cuddly brotherhood of nations stuff' might have some valency, and - taking a wider view - may well be much more important than any other consideration. I am quite certain that the EU has made it easier for the European nations to speak with one voice over Ukraine, for example. I also hold out hope (albeit dim) that the EU's 'democratic deficit' may be addressed in future.

    Marías's father was an anti-fascist, briefly imprisoned by the Franco regime. Marías himself spent his late adolescence and university years in Madrid under Franco. I'd imagine that if he was rose-tinted about the EU, it is not because he was muddled; rather, he knew from experience what he was talking about - the stakes are high, almost abstract, and they operate at a level where 'co-operation' trumps 'sovereignty'.
    eternumviti, Rob998, ff1d1l and 2 others like this.
  11. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    "Seems to me", said William slowly, "that's hardly a serious refutation of perfectly good points".
    "Yes" said Ginger "he impugns" - he drew the word out with a certain relish, having only recently acquired it from a pamphlet in his brother's room - "an honourable point of view".
    "That ole ET man" interjected Douglas, indistinctly, his jaws occupied with mastication of a monster gobstopper, "he's nothing better than one of those quislings, trying to bring Britain down by supporting that ole brexit thing".
    Henry decided matters by screwing up ET's scrappy missive and tossing it to Jumble, who was quite prepared to treat it as a rat or at least to worry and tear at it until evidence proved otherwise.
    "When I grow up", pronounced Henry "I'm not going to have any of that ole brexit stuff".
    "That's all very well", muttered William gloomily "but suppose some ole brexit has you"?
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2022
    MikeMA, PsB, laughingboy and 2 others like this.
  12. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    The EU Parliament stood for a minutes silence out of respect for the Queen today in contrast to the disrespect the Parliament was previously shown by Nigel Farage and his MEPs representing her country,

    Wolfmancatsup and ff1d1l like this.
  13. psd122

    psd122 pfm Member

    Still making me smile 47 pages & fukc all positive as per the OP
  14. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Oh, it's more than any 47 pages. This is only the latest iteration of the thread, it has to be renewed after 100 pages and this is about the 5th renewal. As you have guessed, nobody's named a positive beyond "we won, you lost, hahahaha, we're out and everything's great" .
    lordsummit, psd122 and Wolfmancatsup like this.
  15. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    Its quite interesting that the reply that he made in the interview didn't seem to me to directly address the question that he was asked, which seemed to relate to resistance within the EU to cultural interchange with Britain?

    Anyway, I have much sympathy with the considered points that you (and he) make, and I am sure that they have validity to the relative success of the European 'family' over the past 70 years. Let me make it clear; I do not see Brexit as a victory of some kind - I see it as a dismaying failure; one of diplomacy, certainly, but more importantly, of the European project itself; and we mustn't forget that Brexit encapsulated sentiments that were widespread across Europe, and I suspect remain so not far beneath the surface, where below it at all.

    The sentiments that Marias expresses, though shaped by his own family's experience in Spain, are precisely those upon which the European project was founded in the post-war period - to prevent further war in Europe. To the founding fathers this took the physical form of first tying a serially expansive Germany's industrial base to that of France, and using this as a springboard for a fuller economic, and ultimately, political union. To the former evolved the EEC, a broadly successful and popular arrangement. To the latter came, often by means of sleight of hand and obfuscation, the EU, a very different and far more divisive creature, and one driven by a narrow ideological objective.

    I regret that I don't see the countries of the EU as 'unified' at all, and the status-quo, such as it is, only holds through grim political determination, no small degree of doctrinairism, and the binding effect of the single currency, an artifice maintained against considerable odds both to compel members towards the objective of full political union, and to make it impossible for them to leave.

    The perceived unity of the EU over Ukraine is wafer thin, if it exists at all. It will be tested, I fear to destruction in the coming months. Mercantilist Germany, hitherto the sole real beneficiary of the Euro - which it has ruthlessly gamed - has been geopolitically inept in regard of its reliance on Russian energy. Hungary refuses to stop buying Russian gas and oil, and it's government probably supports Putin. Italy wants to maintain Russian energy supplies. Poland, which has taken in vast numbers of Ukrainian refugees, is subject to a block of EU funds over internal policies with which Brussels has issues. It might reasonably be argued that the EU itself, ever eager to expand its 'sphere of influence' (technocratic rulebook) was somewhat more that merely complacent in its conduct towards Ukraine in the period leading up to Maidan, and indeed since.

    The concept of a community of European nations as an idea is beautiful. Sadly, the institutions and dogma that have been born of that idea have seriously overreached. They are now threatening to destroy the very thing that they created.
    Spraggons Den and laughingboy like this.
  16. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

    In the Guardian:

    "No 10 confirmed that Jacob Rees-Mogg will not be replaced as Brexit opportunities minister. Rees-Mogg will still address this agenda as business secretary, and ministers in other departments will consider Brexit opportunities too, Downing Street said." .

    A Brexit opportunity for JRM (and other departments) perhaps:

    "Hundreds of millions of pounds are being added to UK energy bills because of the failure to implement a trade deal with the EU that would allow efficient movement of power via subsea cables..." (per the FT).
  17. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

    Thoughts on what will happen in Italy?
  18. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    My word, Max Hastings sounding more like Alastair Campbell:

    For perhaps three decades, between Thatcher and David Cameron, Britain contrived to be both a prosperous and reasonably successful society. Its descent from that condition, much influenced by the Brexit flight from Europe that was driven by right-wing nationalists such as now dominate the Conservative Party, has been frighteningly swift.

    Today the ascent to Downing Street of Liz Truss, amid the near-collapse of the pound and prospect of an industrial and social Winter of Discontent, represents a historic moment. Britain is in grave danger of becoming not merely diminished, but worse: a laughingstock.
  19. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    He has done for years.
  20. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    I think about it quite alot. I can't reach any conclusions. You?
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