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Break In

TLS

pfm Member
Hearing about break in period from manufacturers in reference to their electronics or loudspeakers seems to be fundamentally irreverent. Why don't they do it at the factory and stop cheating customers. Wouldn't you agree to pay a little extra just to know that what you hear at a dealer's room is what you'l get at home?

Please, forget about room dimensions and all that crap!
 
To answer your question...most people don't find "break in" an issue and have no problem using their system until during or after it breaks in - matter of fact, they probably don't even notice it's broken in as it's such a joy for them to have something better sounding compared to what they owned before.

Active Hifi forum audiophiles seem to be a bit more particular however.

P.S. I didn't forget you, I'm still working on a reply to your "cheating customers" bit. I'm waiting on a shipment of more pain and misery to really get into the groove for a proper reply which should certainly arrive by 12/21/12 if those damn Aztecs were right.
 
To answer your question...most people don't find "break in" an issue and have no problem using their system until during or after it breaks in - matter of fact, they probably don't even notice it's broken in as it's such a joy for them to have something better sounding compared to what they owned before.

Active Hifi forum audiophiles seem to be a bit more particular however.

P.S. I didn't forget you, I'm still working on a reply to your "cheating customers" bit. I'm waiting on a shipment of more pain and misery to really get into the groove for a proper reply which should certainly arrive by 12/21/12 if those damn Aztecs were right.

Are you implying that the new toys they get is better sounding? Ok, "cheating customers" may not be the appropriate expression.
 
Are you implying that the new toys they get is better sounding?

I would hope so as there's no other reason to buy one (or a better one at least.) Seriously, break in really isn't that big of a deal. It's going to happen whether you want it to or not - kind of like going over a waterfall when you lose your paddle if you know what I mean so just enjoy the ride.

Ok, "cheating customers" may not be the appropriate expression.

I'd agree;-)
 
I expect you could get the manufacturer or dealer to `break in` if you paid them enough extra money. I imagine most people would rather save the money and listen to their music improve.
 
Hearing about break in period from manufacturers in reference to their electronics or loudspeakers seems to be fundamentally irreverent. Why don't they do it at the factory and stop cheating customers. Wouldn't you agree to pay a little extra just to know that what you hear at a dealer's room is what you'l get at home?

Please, forget about room dimensions and all that crap!

I don't see how anyone's "cheating the customer" you have a very odd way of looking at things.

The simple answer is that the run-in process is not well understood by those who believe in it.

There can be 6 months from when a unit leaves a factor, Shipped, warehoused then sent to a dealer - after this time, does the unit need to be run-in once again? I certainly don't have the answer...

So does that mean I'm out to cheat my customers? - I certainly hope not – the VERY last thing I would want is an unhappy customer – someone who has entrusted in me with there hard earn money for one of my designs… The very last thing any decent person would wish to do is cheat anyone…

So, if you feel I’m out to cheat you because I recommend a one week run-in period for my designs – then you are not the type of customer I’d ever want to deal with.

When you buy a new car that needs to be run-in and its oil changed after the first 3000km, are you being cheated?

John
 
Leaving aside the foolish 'cheating' remark, I can never make up my mind how much of 'break-in' is actually break-in, and how much is us getting acustomised to the new sound of a new component. Where I assume break-in must matter quite a lot is with electro-mechanical things like speaker drivers, which will surely loosen-up and relax.
If you think about it, every physcial object (such as us) never stops changing.Change is a constant.
 
Hearing about break in period from manufacturers in reference to their electronics or loudspeakers seems to be fundamentally irreverent. Why don't they do it at the factory and stop cheating customers. Wouldn't you agree to pay a little extra just to know that what you hear at a dealer's room is what you'l get at home?

Please, forget about room dimensions and all that crap!

The break-in can't be done in the factory because it is your hearing that has to acclimatize, the actual sound does not change.

Tim
 
When you buy a new car (so I'm told, I've never bought one) the engine feels "tight" at first and gradually loosens up. Even today, when the "running in" process is supposed to have been abolished. Such is life.
 
Car manufacturers don't break in their cars. Its the same with Hi Fi for me -I'd want to buy a componenent knowing that all componenets are brand new.
 
The break-in can't be done in the factory because it is your hearing that has to acclimatize, the actual sound does not change.

Tim

That may be true with electronics, but I know for a fact that speakers do "break in." I've built several with brand new drivers and after a few hours they seem to loosen up and the bass gets fuller and warmer. Then again, it might be me getting used to them, but I don't think so.
 
The break-in can't be done in the factory because it is your hearing that has to acclimatize, the actual sound does not change.

Tim

Organic capacitors do change in early use.. My Mdac definately changed how it sounded over the first few days of being on. And then changed how it sounded over the course of a few days after it went off to John for modification.

Sam
 
Where I assume break-in must matter quite a lot is with electro-mechanical things like speaker drivers, which will surely loosen-up and relax.

Yes, the spider (corrugated suspension in the centre of a driver) does literally "break" in (and loosen up a bit), other than that typically no - nothing else does (electrolytic capacitors must form to be effective, not the same process).

Do not confuse break-in with burn-in, which simply ensures that electrical circuitry has been brought up to full operating temperature for a while and possibly adjusted to correct spec. The idea here is that if it is going to fail it will likely do so sooner rather than later, so fewer returns should result from burning-in before selling the kit. This used to be standard procedure for pricey electricals, not so much these days.


Ed: and then there is warm-up, electrical circuitry is designed with certain conditions in mind and operating temperature is one of them. Resistance values typically increase with temperature, so a period of stabilisation may be required for things to settle down to specified parameters - particularly if there is a significant amount of heatsinking involved. Electrically everything may have nominally stabilised after switch on within fractions of a second, at most a few seconds, but thermodynamically this is unlikely to be true and hence there may well be some variance in performance after a few minutes or even hours. Every piece of hifi kit I have ever owned sounded better to me when properly warmed up.
 
When I had a shop in the mid '80s, it was very rare that we ever sold a sealed box. Everything that went out of the shop got a properly fused plug fitted (that was before moulded plugs) and run up and tested. Loudspeakers got a few hours use, normally the customer took away the pair they heard on demo, but if they wanted a different colour we didn't have in stock, then we got a pair in for them and ran them up to make sure they were OK.

We caught a fair few "infant mortalities" that way. Also caught a fair few scratched/chipped loudspeakers.

However, in those days there didn't seem to be the "sealed box" syndrome. People actually appreciated not having to be the first to switch something on.

S.
 
There is no better feeling in the world than opening a new box and inwrapping the contents. I dont really believe in run in, except maybe 30 minutes to warm up and settle down, so I don't feel "cheated".
 
I don't see how anyone's "cheating the customer" you have a very odd way of looking at things.

The simple answer is that the run-in process is not well understood by those who believe in it.

There can be 6 months from when a unit leaves a factor, Shipped, warehoused then sent to a dealer - after this time, does the unit need to be run-in once again? I certainly don't have the answer...

So does that mean I'm out to cheat my customers? - I certainly hope not – the VERY last thing I would want is an unhappy customer – someone who has entrusted in me with there hard earn money for one of my designs… The very last thing any decent person would wish to do is cheat anyone…

So, if you feel I’m out to cheat you because I recommend a one week run-in period for my designs – then you are not the type of customer I’d ever want to deal with.

When you buy a new car that needs to be run-in and its oil changed after the first 3000km, are you being cheated?

John

John, I didn't mean intentionally cheating customers. My point is that if a manufacturer don't want a unhappy customer, why doesn't he include the run-in process before loudspeakers leave the factory. This would prevent any uncertainties and would facilitate buying decision.
 
Because it involves hours of pumping mains frequency through bass drivers at near maximum excursion, typically resulting in a permanent lowering of free-air resonant frequency by maybe a few Hertz and a marginal increase in sensitivity. You can achieve the same thing yourself by playing music (loud).

If they were good enough to convince you to buy in the first place and you know that they are likely to improve with time, why rob yourself of that pleasure?
 


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