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Brahms 1 /Bernstein/Live

PaulMB

PaulMB

pfm Member
Wonder if there are any Brahms/Bernstein cognoscenti out there.
I want to buy Bernstein's "live" recording of Brahms' 1st symphony with the Wiener Philharmoniker. (on CD). There seem to be 2 editions on Ebay, one that sells for anything up to 50 Euro for a good used copy, and one that goes for 6-10 Euro. Both are "live", both are recorded in 1983. So presumably the same concert.
Is the cheap one a shoddy, low quality pressing, or does the first just have "first Edition" prestige. Has anyone heard both?

Grateful for any opiniuons,

Paul
 
I've found 2 (CDs) on German Ebay, but shipping worldwide. One for 29.99 plus shipping, the other at 53.99 plus shipping. Obviously they can keep 'em.
 
I got the cd boxed of Bernstein's Brahms cylcle set new, I think from Amazon. Its the 2004 edition, 474 930-2. I can't remember how much this cost but it wasn't much. It has the Violin Concerto and Double Concerto too, so a great box. Nothing I've heard comes close Bernstein's live version of the 4th for me.
 
Yes, thanks,
I've been ringing up shops here in Rome and they all tell me about box sets. Maybe I'll get one of those then, although for some reason I have an irrational aversion to box sets. Probably something to do with not having been breast fed long enough, or too long, I'll speak to a shrink.

Thanks to everyone! Paul
 
I'm prety sure all the Brahms/Bernstein/VPO CDs whether box set or single discs are the same recordings, same mastering and will sound the same.

I've got the set on Vinyl, but no big deal as its early digital and hence no better whatever format. Not that they are bad recordings.

Now time to be a bore: - I have to say that as someone with at least 9 or 10 different recordings of each Brahms symphony (there's something about Brahms that really works for me), I find Bernstein's VPO set pretty mediocre. Brahms doesn't need much interpretation, the emotion is there in the music, it needs a sympathetic non egoist performance to let it through. Bernstein's slack tempos and mannerisms aren't good for this.

Carlos Kleiber's 4th with the same orchestra recorded at around the same time as Lennie's shows how it really should be done. Pretty straight tempos and plenty of attack - the result is incandescent, thrilling and unarguable. Unfortunately the recording is not quite as good as same record company achieved for Bernstein - but the performance cuts through that regardless.
 
alanbeeb said:
it needs a sympathetic non egoist performance to let it through. Bernstein's slack tempos and mannerisms aren't good for this.

Carlos Kleiber's 4th with the same orchestra recorded at around the same time as Lennie's shows how it really should be done. Pretty straight tempos and plenty of attack - the result is incandescent, thrilling and unarguable.
Click to expand...

Well I'll certainly try Kleiber's, but 'plenty of attack', 'incandescent, thrilling' - this is just how I experience Bernstein's 4th (in contrast, say, to Addabo's stately version). I really only ever listen to the 4th and I don't hear the slack tempos. Is it the 4th you're meaning when you make that criticism?
 
alanbeeb said:
I'm prety sure all the Brahms/Bernstein/VPO CDs whether box set or single discs are the same recordings, same mastering and will sound the same.

I've got the set on Vinyl, but no big deal as its early digital and hence no better whatever format. Not that they are bad recordings.

Now time to be a bore: - I have to say that as someone with at least 9 or 10 different recordings of each Brahms symphony (there's something about Brahms that really works for me), I find Bernstein's VPO set pretty mediocre. Brahms doesn't need much interpretation, the emotion is there in the music, it needs a sympathetic non egoist performance to let it through. Bernstein's slack tempos and mannerisms aren't good for this.

Carlos Kleiber's 4th with the same orchestra recorded at around the same time as Lennie's shows how it really should be done. Pretty straight tempos and plenty of attack - the result is incandescent, thrilling and unarguable. Unfortunately the recording is not quite as good as same record company achieved for Bernstein - but the performance cuts through that regardless.
Click to expand...

Not a bore at all, on the contrary. I first discovered Beethoven's piano sonatas played by Brendel. Then I heard them by Ashkenazy and thought they were awful, over-the-top, kind of Rachmaninov-like.
I just saw a video of Bernstein and the IPO doing Brahms 1st in 1973, which moved me very much, so thought I'd have a listen to a good-quality CD recording. I'm sure you are right about Brahms not needing any extra input of passion, but then in this kind of thing where does one draw the line? Very personal, different moments (of the day, of life..) different moods. I've got a Kleiber recording of Beethoven's 5+7, which is marvelous. So I'll probably end up, like you, with different versions of the Brahms.

Thank you, and many thanks also to everyone else, for their thoughts.
 
Elephantears said:
Well I'll certainly try Kleiber's, but 'plenty of attack', 'incandescent, thrilling' - this is just how I experience Bernstein's 4th (in contrast, say, to Addabo's stately version). I really only ever listen to the 4th and I don't hear the slack tempos. Is it the 4th you're meaning when you make that criticism?
Click to expand...

I haven't listened to it for a while so will need to give it a spin.... it was definitely the 1st and 3rd symphonies that I thought were worst offenders! 2nd is quite acceptable. 4th is probably straightest - but I seem to remember in the 4th movement that the flute solo bit is very slow, and then also (like a lot of other conductors) he slows down a lot for the final coda - signposting "and here is the end!" - while Kleiber keeps the pace constant and its so much more effective as a result.
 
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