Black diamond stylus

DaCapo are doing 'analogis black diamond' styli and I'm thinking of getting a AN4968 which is an elliptical stylus for the Goldring G800 cartridge. Anyone tried these black diamond styli?

 

I have two, one each for my Shure
m95ed and my m75ed. Both offer decent sound and good value for money.

 

Cheers @Fergus.

 

Further to the above, I bought a couple of analogis styli about 6 months.
I've just got them out of the packaging and found that the D110E seems to have the tip in a completely different position to the original. This image is one I nicked from ebay to show the original cart and stylus position:

This is my old original stylus (right) with the analogis (left) below:

The original looks much the same as the ebay image whilst the analogis appears set back about 3mm further. Must admit that the cart with original stylus had to be mounted twisted to get the cantilever aligned with the groove:

Maybe I need to fit and align it and see how I go.
Any thoughts?

 

Well beggar me!
I squared the cart up in the headshell, installed the analogis stylus and played it through an old test lp, not listening, just looking at the cart position. All looks reasonable as the tip lines up with the front edge of the arm lift and that appears normal (square) to the grooves. A rudimentary overhang check gives between 16 and 16.5mm which (according to marcmorin) is spot on. Sits a bit lower than the original stylus so might have to raise it. Was already slightly tail high on the XA, so this looks like it could do with about a 2mm thicker mat.
When I get chance I'll give it a listen.

 

Side on, the stylus sits pretty low but the tip looks as though the rake angle isn't right:

Oh, and despite the tiny gap at the back of the stylus to the cart body, it is inserted as far as it will go.

 

These sorts of anomalies make me wary of aftermarket styluses. I have a Jico SAS for an old A&R etc. type body. The cantilever extends beyond the front of it making exact alignment impossible.

Also, isn’t colour in diamonds meant to be because of impurities? I had an AT95e years ago with a black stylus that certainly wasn’t touted as anything special.

 

Thanks @Durmbo I know what you mean. I also bought an analogis at110e stylus and the cantilever on this is about 1mm longer than the original. I'd also have thought the JIco SAS would be better than that TBH as so many rave about these.
Could do with some input from @DSJR here as it appears he's 're-configured' G800 carts:
https://theartofsound.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-22841.html
Does seem strange though that the tip of the analogis g800e is 3mm or thereabouts 'behind' the original, but the analogis has the correct overhang on the XA with the arm tube as far back as it will go. Suggests that the original tip is too far forwards, but the original stylus tip position looks like all the other g800 images I've seen.

 

Morning @Tony L,
Not absolutely certain as I only have a rudimentary diy balance. BUT, if you look at the image of old with new above, you can see how much further back the tip is. (3mm at about 23degrees is about 1.2mm lower.) You can also see the cantilever sits against the brass mounting and when you sit the tip in the groove, it deflects <1mm so not a million miles away. It's just strange that it looks 'wrong' but the overhang is right...whilst the rake looks a mile out.
Analogis stylus left, tip to tip

Looking down cantilever

 

Excellent, thanks @Tony L
This thread on vinyl engine indicates using a VTF of under 1g, but shows pretty much the same scenario I have:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=130396
Must admit I really dont listen to much vinyl at all. Was more of a project to keep an old man busy
I'll have a look at both under a microscope at work tomorrow. Then I'll reset it down to about 1.25g and listen to it.
Should have asked, but what are you listening for when adjusting by ear? Sibilants?

 

Yes, I can attest to that. Many years ago I set up an OC9 MLii on my Audiomecca Romance. Set with the high modulation tracks on a Len Gregory test record, the cantilever looked a mile off centre to the left from the front. Reduced the bias so it looked right in the end. No such problems with the XA as there is no bias...

 

Well I'm afraid I wasn't impressed and suspected that the set up was likely wrong. Having done some further reading I eventually found this on setting up carts:
http://www.vacuumstate.com/fileupload/GuruSetUp.pdf
I now need to experiment with a different tt where I have adjustable bias available...
@Tony L if you think it worthwhile it might be worth adding this link to the reference section.

 

Took my two used AT110E styli and the equivalent Analogis replacement in to work today. One AT110E is clearly quite worn and some weird light coming back from the stone suggests it is cracked. Other one is worn, but appears useable. Anyway I photographed the good one and the Analogis 110E and made some measurements:

As you can see the AT110E tip is square to the flat of the cantilever, and this is at 2degrees to the underside of the shell. It would appear therefore that with VTF applied, this should 'sit' about right on a record which I'll check at the weekend.
The Analogis though is raked back 2degrees from square and the cantilever flat is 5degrees from the underside of the shell. This appears be raked too far back in the groove, seen here:

I had to run at 2.5g VTF. Any lower and it produced a 'snapping' sound on transients which I assume is mis-tracking.
I'm going to attempt to remove the stylus assembly from the shell and fit it into the AT shell with the sha99ed tip but use the original AT doughnut to see if it wiil run at lower VFT and improve the rake angle which looks too much as above.

 

I suspect the cantilever has been pushed back into the to the square metal tube. I remember nearly forty years ago I did a similar thing to my AT110. Back then of course they were very cheap. I think I was able to pull it forward but not 100% sure. I end up getting a OM10 as I thought it looked cool with Concorde like body. I was 18-19 at the time mind.

 

Hi @flapland I should have said that both AT110E cantilevers are the same length whilst that on the Analogis is about 1mm longer.

 

I’ve just bought one of these for the Shure M75.

I’m only a few sides in but I have to say it’s excellent. Bold, rich and detailed.



https://www.dacapoaudio.com/1388-Sh...-bii/426-info-aftermarket_stylus_n75b_type_ii

I’d have paid more for the performance on offer, and I’ve paid far more for far less in the past in this game. A bit of a bargain I reckon.

 

I bought one of these Analogis black diamond stylus for my Shure M95 and I can’t remove it from the cartridge, it’s in there tight. Guess I’ll just have to use it to destruction and then forcibly remove!