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Bi wire options

Discussion in 'audio' started by Darren L, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    I've very recently been using a pair of SF Olympica I speakers (still experimenting with placement) with Tellurium Q Black II speaker cables and matching short 'jumper' cables. The speaker cables are factory terminated both ends with banana plugs, the jumper cables, bananas one end spades the other.
    When I have the speaker cables plugged into the HF terminals on the speaker and the jumpers running to the LF terminals I'm getting exceptionally good HF performance, when I change the speaker cables to the LF terminals and use the jumpers to the HF I'm getting a noticeable gain in bass performance and noticeable drop in HF performance.
    I have as yet to try re inserting the little metal jumpers supplied with the speaker and will do tomorrow. I will also try going back to Nordost Blue heaven Rev II which is a biwire cable.
    I wondered had anyone else ever came across this before.
    I wasn't expecting any change at all from moving the cables from the HF to LF terminals given the jumper cables are made of the same stuff, but it is quite easily heard, my wife even noticed the difference.
     
  2. Rug Doc

    Rug Doc pfm Member

    Would be interested to hear that the changes disappear when you reinsert the metal connecting plates - I’m sure they will.
     
  3. YNWOAN

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    In some quarters it is suggested that, when single wiring but also using bi-wire jumper cables, one should connect one side of the speaker cable (the + or -) to the bass and the other to the treble (I hope that makes sense - easy enough to try).
     
  4. cjarchez

    cjarchez pfm Member

    "Cross wiring".
    Can be effective depending on the crossover and worth a try.
     
  5. chartz

    chartz pfm Member

    Tried it, heard nothing. I really wanted it to work though, honestly.

    Bi-wiring doesn’t make any scientific sense. But it will most definitely make loom manufacturers twice as happy.

    Hi-fi in general is full of stupid ideas like this. And don’t get me wrong: it has been my main hobby for 40 years.

    Remember that silly Monster Cable water tap analogy? Many people believed it because it seemed to make sense back then.
     
  6. H20GNA

    H20GNA Active Member

    I tried all of your above methods, but the best SQ I found was two runs of cable to each speakers. This may be system dependent and contentious but it's true of my system.

    Gary
     
    Darren and YNWOAN like this.
  7. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals Disruptor

    Definitely is better for me. Mogami 3104 ran into four, over two and jumpers. Bigger beefier sound.
     
  8. hski

    hski pfm Member

    I'd second the guys above stating to cross=wire the cables.
    You connect the LF to the negative speaker cable and the HF to the posotive speaker cable.
    I've just purchased some new pro made airlocked bananas to bananas so i could use this methos as i use spade for cable from the amp.
    You could struggle though as how can you connect this way as your jumper cable is banana to spade and isn't the cable directional or not, so the jumper bananas will get in the way of the speaker banana, if connected diaganally.
     
  9. andrews

    andrews pfm Member

    Darren

    have you tried this?
    https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/diamond-wiring-and-mixed-jumper-speaker-cables.228790/
     
  10. YNWOAN

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    It’s described in post #3 ;) - also in posts 4 and 8....
     
    Darren likes this.
  11. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    Thanks for the replies, I inserted the factory supplied metal jumpers back into the speakers last night and cross wired with the TQ ,I'd say they are giving an overall more balanced sound, I have some free time today (as its pissing down) so I'll have a little experiment and try the TQ jumpers and then the Nordost.
     
  12. narabdela

    narabdela who?


    Or...you could just relax and listen to some music.
     
    MikeMA, Emlin and TonyScarlett like this.
  13. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    Thanks, I'm sure I will
     
  14. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    You don't need to cables, you just need to do away with jumpers. If you don't want to rewire the back of the speaker terminal plate, fit 'F' plugs to the cables.

    Solder two plugs on the end of each cable. One goes on the end, as per usual, at a right-angle to the cable. The other is soldered on part way down the cable at the correct distance from the end so that the two plugs fit into the two speaker sockets and remove the need for the jumper cables.

    How you get the second plug onto the cable will depend on the cable but the best way is to fold a kink into the cable and used plugs with a solder bucket big enough to take it. Tricky with thick cables but I've done it with NAC5 so it can be done. It's easiest to do the extra plug first and then the one on the end. Test the fit into the speaker before soldering and if in doubt make the gap between the plugs too long and you'll be able to curve the adjoining cable and get them to fit.

    The advantage you hear with bi-wire is not the extra cable but the removal of the links. Which is exactly what you've just discovered, the links degrade the sound.
     
  15. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    There is zero possibility of either jumpers or the way the speaker cables are plugged into the speakers making any difference so long as all connections are clean and sound.
     
  16. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals Disruptor

    "Deaf people can do anything hearing people can, except hear"

    (-Dr. King Jordan)
     
  17. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    You know, you'd be better just not commenting. I've read good reviews of your phono stage but personally, I just can't buy something from someone who continually posts opinions which I know to be wrong. I've found exactly the same thing as the OP, that which set of posts is used makes a difference to the sound. I've also found that single wire with 'F' plugs sounds the same as bi-wire, banana plugs sound different, lots of things which you no doubt would say are nonsense. Why you can't hear things that countless others have discovered on their own I do not know but not hearing them doesn't make you right.
     
    The Chronicals likes this.
  18. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    First of all it's not an opinion. It's electrical fact. Then second yes you are quite right I do say that all those things you mention are nonsense... because they are.

    It's quite bizarre the way some people appear to have an attitude of "so long as I know nothing whatsoever about electricity and electronics and therefore have no idea what's even possible or impossible then anything goes and the laws of physics don't apply to me"
     
    narabdela, Emlin, matt j and 4 others like this.
  19. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    For those who don't believe in pixie magic and unicorns here's a tip to extend the theoretical "advantages" of bi-wiring.
    First you need a solid state amp with a good high damping factor (low output impedance) and no output resistor (so Naims no good).
    Take a pair per channel (assuming bi-wire. 3 resistors if tri-wire etc) of 0.1R wirewound resistors of about 5W rating and connect each pair together at one end.
    Connect the end where they are soldered together to the red terminal of the amp and do the same with the other set to the other channel. You should now have a pair of "Y" connected resistors coming from the red terminal of each channel. Now use one of the outputs from the resistors for tweeter and the other for woofers, black speaker leads go to black amp terminals as normal.
    If the amp has bi-wire outputs (ie two pairs of speaker terminals per channel) then you don't need to connect them together at one end... just add one resistor to each speaker red lead...

    I've not tried it and have no idea what subjective reports anyone trying it may give but at least it's electrically sound.
     
    chartz likes this.
  20. chartz

    chartz pfm Member

    I agree. But I am an electrician, so I am biased.
     
    Tarzan likes this.

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