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Best Step-Up Transformer(s) for Koetsu Cartridges

I'm aware of that, Graham, having recently had one replaced. I thought that all/most valved stages required SUTs, but maybe not.

The advantage of the SUT is that is is extremely low noise, assuming it is placed away from any magnetic field or high powered electronics. It is also extremely simple with just wire in the signal path and no electronic components, so there is very little to corrupt the very delicate signal from the MC cartridge. This is why the SUT is so popular among valve/tube analogue aficionados. Some of the more exoteric and boutique manufacturers (me included) have also used coupling transformers in between stages, as there is a quality and flow to the music that is very compelling. Having said that some of the newer and better quality coupling capacitors and resistors have significantly narrowed the gap in this area over the last few years...

A SUT can be used into a solid-state or a valve/tube MM phono stage to provide the extra MC gain required to bring it up to the same level as an MM cartridge.
 
F.w.i.w., I have a Urushi Vermillion (lower output). Both that, a Benz Ebony and T. Proteus sing through my EAR 912 pre., which I believe has the trannies and performance not far short of EAR's top SUT. I've never been into SUTs, relying instead on previous s/s stages. I wonder if the extra cost, complexity and interconnectivity of SUTs is such a viable route these days.

The m/c stages of EAR's pre's are generally considered to be excellent, and it may be that others, and SUTs, just offer a different flavour rather than out and out s.q. improvement. Just a sceptical thought ! ;)

I was sceptical too, till I try an SUT and the rest are history. Heard what GT had described, natural and realistic.
 
A SUT can be used into a solid-state or a valve/tube MM phono stage to provide the extra MC gain required to bring it up to the same level as an MM cartridge.

I thought this was the primary reason for having an SUT, at least in days or yore. I wonder, being uninitiated in both SUTs and valves, whether having a separate SUT into a MM input is any advantage over having the SUT built in, as EAR do. Then there's the head amp approach, but not sure where that fits in, if at all.

Koetsu Rosewood Red K Sig

I think Rosewood was the older appellation (Sugano San), but now is called the Red K Sig. It's either/or, but not 'Rosewood Red :) I read once that the Red K Sig. is simply the Red (or Rosewood) T, but selected for closer matching and consequent better s.q. Both of these, with the Black Goldline, have healthy 0.5 mV to 0.6mV outputs, though Urushis and stone-bodied Ks etc. have lower outputs, with the Vermillion having the lowest.
 
I think Rosewood was the older appellation (Sugano San), but now is called the Red K Sig. It's either/or, but not 'Rosewood Red :) I read once that the Red K Sig. is simply the Red (or Rosewood) T, but selected for closer matching and consequent better s.q. Both of these, with the Black Goldline, have healthy 0.5 mV to 0.6mV outputs, though Urushis and stone-bodied Ks etc. have lower outputs, with the Vermillion having the lowest.
Thanks well it does seem to be the older version from provenance conversation with seller so all good, I’ll be interested to see if Koetsu in Japan have designated it in writing on it’s return from rebuilding.
 
My understanding was Koetsu will put a new generator into your aged rosewood body. One reason I chose Goldring to rebuild mine. No complaints but I do wonder how it compares to an original?
 
My understanding was Koetsu will put a new generator into your aged rosewood body. One reason I chose Goldring to rebuild mine. No complaints but I do wonder how it compares to an original?

Well, if it's a Koetsu rebuild, it's a Koetsu. The only caveat (and it's certainly not a negative) is that Sugano SON did subtly change the presentation of his father's creations; as all spec's remain the same, I wonder how. It is slightly controversial, with some ( died in the wool acolytes?) preferring the older, lusher effect and others thinking that it's a more modern take, but most certainly Koetsu. I tend to go for the latter view, though I've no experience of comparisons so it's simply received wisdom.
 
Well, if it's a Koetsu rebuild, it's a Koetsu. The only caveat (and it's certainly not a negative) is that Sugano SON did subtly change the presentation of his father's creations; as all spec's remain the same, I wonder how. It is slightly controversial, with some ( died in the wool acolytes?) preferring the older, lusher effect and others thinking that it's a more modern take, but most certainly Koetsu. I tend to go for the latter view, though I've no experience of comparisons so it's simply received wisdom.
I have a very old but healthy Koetsu Rosewood long body.

It's a very energetic and dynamic cartridge at 100 Ohm loading. I used it on a P9 and the big Sony and wouldn't describe it as lush.
 
SUTs are a product of a bygone era, when high gain, low noise amplification was hard to come by.

They are essentially unnecessary today - an archaic product fulfilling a boutique niche - perhaps like a cartridge warmer products that came up in another thread.
You should try a good one - I could suggest the EAR MC4 it is excellent. In my system is was a significant improvement over the internal transformers in the EAR Phonobox that I am auditioning. Another member of Stereonet in Australia also confirmed that when he tried the same combination it improved his sound.

I don't know anything at all about cartridge warmers but SUTs can improve the sound in my experience and a good one is worth trying. A lot of people think vinyl is a product of a bygone era so perhaps a good SUT is a good match.
 
You should try a good one - I could suggest the EAR MC4 it is excellent. In my system is was a significant improvement over the internal transformers in the EAR Phonobox that I am auditioning. Another member of Stereonet in Australia also confirmed that when he tried the same combination it improved his sound.

I don't know anything at all about cartridge warmers but SUTs can improve the sound in my experience and a good one is worth trying. A lot of people think vinyl is a product of a bygone era so perhaps a good SUT is a good match.
I already own 5 phono stages with high gain and exceedingly low noise. Spending money on an alternative way to amplify MCs seems near pointless to me.

I can understand if you have a favorite MC that has a special relationship with a particular SUT. But I have 30 carts and I need gain and loading flexibility that SUT can't provide.
 
No problems here. Just doing some due diligence. I mean, that's what audio forums are for, are they not?

I thought this was the best reply you have received. You absolutely love the sound you are getting at the moment, why chance that? Not only that it saves you money, the problem you have is reading too many forums, magazines ect, taking your expectations higher when in fact the likely hood is changing will only be a side ways step. Have you tried just going through the mc stage and not worrying too much about settings?
 
Koetsu Rosewood long body. It's a very energetic and dynamic cartridge at 100 Ohm loading.

As I said, I was going on (a lot of) received wisdom re. the sound of Sugano San's cart's. I guess that Longbody has been refurbished as it must be 30 ish years old. I'm aspiring toward the stone-bodied Ks but doubt that I'll ever jump that £4 gap !

In the eighties and nineties, there weren't too many upmarket coils around; Linn, Roksan, Benz etc. and Koetsu was a very different departure to the others around at that time, with the possible and dubious exception of the SPU. today's market is different, with more variety at both ends of the cost spectrum. Tonearms have also come on apace to accommodate these transducers.

It's sad that the finest cart. I've had is available no more; its design was different and it showed sonically. Transfiguration.

I could suggest the EAR MC4 it is excellent.

At least I have a flavour of that superb SUT stage in my pre. but it is commensurately rather costly.
 
At least I have a flavour of that superb SUT stage in my pre. but it is commensurately rather costly.

You also have a flavour in the Tron Convergence.

There are many vastly better SUTs available than the EAR MC4. They are made for EAR, not made by EAR...
 
EAR MC4. They are made for EAR, not made by EAR...

That surprises me, Graham as I though most amplification was assembled in house. My friend's new 861 power was put together at St.Neot's. It would help to explain the high MC4 cost though.
 
Very very few manufacturers wind their own transformers. They go to specialist companies who will wind transformers to the manufacturers spec. It is nothing new, it has been happening since the start of audio. Back in the 1950s/60s, when Audio was very DIY, companies like Partridge, Parmeko, Williamson etc used to offer a standard range of mains and output transformers, as well as chokes and microphone transformers, which is basically what a SUT is. Quite a few manufacturers in the 1980s used microphone transformers for the MC gain stage as they were often off the shelf items and used by the studios...
 
Not valves but well regarded, Rothwell.
I’m currently using their MCL (RCM Sensor 2 phono stage) with my Zu-Denon 103 which gives a boost/focus to the sound. I’m hoping it will also work well with a Koetsu Rosewood Red K Sig currently being refurbished in Japan.

http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/hi-fi.html

I use a Rothwell MCL as well and it worked well with The Koetsu Black I had. That said it works well with my Benz Ref 2 and Ortofon Jubilee.

I think you may be getting that itch where you maybe want to try something different in case there is better out there - a sort of audiophile FOMO. It is addictive.
 
As I said, I was going on (a lot of) received wisdom re. the sound of Sugano San's cart's. I guess that Longbody has been refurbished as it must be 30 ish years old. I'm aspiring toward the stone-bodied Ks but doubt that I'll ever jump that £4 gap !

In the eighties and nineties, there weren't too many upmarket coils around; Linn, Roksan, Benz etc. and Koetsu was a very different departure to the others around at that time, with the possible and dubious exception of the SPU. today's market is different, with more variety at both ends of the cost spectrum. Tonearms have also come on apace to accommodate these transducers.

It's sad that the finest cart. I've had is available no more; its design was different and it showed sonically. Transfiguration.



At least I have a flavour of that superb SUT stage in my pre. but it is commensurately rather costly.
I am pretty sure my K is original...they don't go bad, except for a rare Technics carts with a weird rubber.

I also love Transfiguration carts and agree there is something very special about them. I own an original Axia S and a retipped Phoenix.
 
Very very few manufacturers wind their own transformers.

I believe the late T. de P. had the job in Japan as a young lad (?) winding trannies for one of the audio companies and at least in the beginning over here, designed and/or manufactured his own, which I think went into his early amplification and maybe MF etc.

I got this partly from history and partly from him, but my memory's not what it was, and that was a low bar !
 


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