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Best speakers for a vivid sound at low volume

Indeed! We, well, very few of the PFM massive really do not know squat about one another, other than an avatar version of ourselves. :)
 
Assuming your vivid is the same as mine: Tannoy 12 " monitor golds will do a good job- the crossover controls will help you get/do the smiley eq thing for use at low volumes too.
 
I'm firing down the room from the short wall,

Silly me, should have read your opening post properly. Guess ProAc Response 3.5s or their later D equivalent should give you enough oompf at lower levels, as they're an easy load and pretty efficient; musical, too.
 
Assuming your vivid is the same as mine: Tannoy 12 " monitor golds will do a good job- the crossover controls will help you get/do the smiley eq thing for use at low volumes too.

Hmmm, I wonder. Or HPDs. I still don't know if Tannoys are my cup of tea ultimately, but it would be good to spend some time with them.
 
Which ones for me then? 12 foot wall, corners available if needed, firing down 15 feet. Would require a complete change of amplification paradigm though.

K's are a nice size.

I had ANE's in a room approximately your size - they worked well, although I preferred not to have them jammed into the room corners.

I don't think however that K's, or indeed ANE's, will give you the resolution and bass at low listening levels that you are looking for. I prefer LV OBX or IBX (either R2 or preferably RW) for that and have had a pair of OBX-R2's in my current room for about 18 months, though they were not my main speaker. But I think there is no getting away from, at least in my case, the empirical observation that if you really want to enjoy visceral bass at low levels then you need a speaker with a big driver.

My current room is 13 1/2 by 15 1/2, extending into a dining room (typical Edwardian terrace with the wall knocked through to the rear reception).

I listen to a 3-way speaker (the discontinued ART Impressions but with Kondo drive units and x'overs and a 12" Volt bass driver as used in the original), with the speakers placed along the long wall either side of the fireplace. I do intend to try them at some point firing down the room.

It is mid-field listening, the presentation is very well integrated and I do most of my listening at low levels late at night. The bass clarity and foundation remains at any level. One big help was placing the speakers on Townshend Stella stands so zero issues with bass and clarity gains across the whole spectrum.

I believe that full-range speakers can be accommodated, with a bit of care, in moderate sized rooms.

My current speakers will be moving to another home, so I am in a similar position to you in that I will be looking to achieve the same objectives you gave. There is another LV speaker under development which would of course work well with my current amplifiers.

But rather than considering an amplification change you might consider PMC, which I have been impressed by, and also the ME Geithain range. I am hoping to listen to the 901K at home at some point, having very much enjoyed listening to it at a dealer's. It is an active studio monitor that doesn't conform to monitor stereotype (dry, clinical, hard etc.). It is a 3-way with the drivers configured to present a point source around a 15" bass driver. They really 'breathe', have tremendous clarity, extension and fluidity, and simply sound very natural. I did ask to listen to them at low volume and it was very satisfying. They have a cardioid arrangement for the bass so that rear energy does not build up, and should therefore be less sensitive to the room. The recommended listening distance is 6-12 ft. They do also have other smaller speakers in the range, which I have not heard, but apparently share the same sonic characteristics.
 
Very interesting, thanks Josst. I would say that regarding your current room, it makes a huge difference that the medium sized Edwardian living room opens up on to a dining room. That generally makes for a very long room which can accommodate those very long sub-bass waves much better.
 
Yes, you have a point, though the interesting thing is that at the moment my speakers are firing across the room, not down it, so I am listening from a sofa that is hard up against a wall (not ideal), and I am only about 8 or 9 ft from the speakers, but it works. So the way yours are positioned, with a 15 ft room, your listening position can still be a few feet from the rear wall which will help a lot.

I look forward to experimenting with different positioning and possible room treatments in due course, though it sounds good as it is and measures pretty well too.
 
I've tried but his inbox is full, so if you are listening Rob...

(oh, and I won't pester you about the Audiosmile BC1 clones any more!)

I'm listening.....someone gave me a nudge ;)

Inbox now has space so feel free to PM.

On some general points about 63s:

Room choice is quite flexible and they definitely don't need a large room.
The dipole operation minimises the excitation of two of the rooms main modes due to the cancelation which occurs. The only two rules are a minimum listening distance of 2m and a few feet minimum behind them, with the 63 angled so as not parallel with the rear wall. Peter Walker famously recommended John Crabbe of Hi-Fi News use 63s in his small bedroom by hanging thick bedding or a mattress being each 63 - so lots of possibilities :)

One advantage with a small room is that the usual upper SPL limitation largely disappears and you get pretty full bass. Mine get down to -6db @ 35Hz which suits me fine.

Lift them up off the floor about 8" and tilt them back slightly - opens the top end considerably since the standard on floor positioning only suits a large room.

Amps - 50wpc and up will do just fine, preferably SS or a meaty PP valve job, no SETs or the like unless you want a bass hump and rolled off top.

I have 63s, 57s, Rogers 3/6 and lots of others knocking around and you are welcome to come and listen.

BC1-ish clone is awaiting tests with a better bass driver. More bass wallop needed :)
 
Personally I think something like the loudness button adjusting the response is handy for low level listening, and for well known reasons connected to how the ear sensitivity with frequency varies with level.

Great idea I think. Someone should market it.
 
Perhaps try some room treatments. My listening room is not far off the same size and a few absorber panels and bass traps made a huge difference. I can listen at reasonably low volumes late at night with what I feel is good bass and treble response.
 
I found that Living Voice speakers worked very well at low volume - being full-sounding and crisp at the same time - when being driven by an EAR V20 amp.
 
Personally I think something like the loudness button adjusting the response is handy for low level listening, and for well known reasons connected to how the ear sensitivity with frequency varies with level.

Great idea I think. Someone should market it.

As Rob says, their is a universally recognised phenomena whereby the ear becomes less sensitive to high and low frequencies as the volume drops (i.e. low levels), hence the invention of the 'loudness' button.

There is no reason why active (or passive) speakers should be better at low level and without being specific, some of the recommendations you have received in this thread (not read it all though) are for speakers that are notoriously known for being better at high levels rather than low!

If it helps, a friend of mine listens to Yamaha NS-1000M’s at, what I consider, very low levels and is happy with them (they are also known for working better at higher levels).
 
If it helps, a friend of mine listens to Yamaha NS-1000M’s at, what I consider, very low levels and is happy with them (they are also known for working better at higher levels).

They have level controls which helps - I know you bypassed yours flat, but most people (who I suspect listen a lot quieter) tend to run them with a couple of db mid-cut, which would help in that context.
 
True; mine aren't set absolutely flat (but not far off).

Most people do indeed listen quieter than me (I am told).
 
Try Martin Logans - electrostatics, but with dynamic bass systems. I suspect my Summits have some form of loudness contour built into the bass eq system as even at low volumes the bass is clearly audible. They also suffer less from fall off when you move further away from them, so the apparent volume stays more constant around the room. Still fussy about positioning, both of the speaker and the listener, but very clear indeed at low volumes, better than ESL57s (which I have also got...) in this respect, and I think electrostatics in general do low volumes better anyway, probably due to hysteresis effects in dynamic speakers.
 
This is a problem I spent some time solving myself. I wanted a great bass response and sensible volumes in my large office without disturbing my staff. None of my B&W really gave me this but PMC deliver this is spades. I bought a scruffy pair of PMC IB1S from eBay and linked them to a pair of Teddy Pardo Monoblocks. They have great bass from the lowest levels up. I also have the PMC DB1 and TB2s and they all perform well at low volumes but the IB1S are just eye opening.
 


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