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Before I throw the towel in on audio - alert: long post.

Maxbertola

Maxbertola

pfm Member
Good afternoon.

My latest system is composed of an Esoteric K-07Xs CDP, a PrimaLuna EVO 100 integrated and Naim n-Sats speakers on their stands. Our living room is largish (35 sq mt or so), T-shaped and the speakers are placed by necessity on one of the shorter T stems, firing across the longer size. I hate this placement, but.

This room favours the wide central range and somehow eats some deep bass and top end; usually smaller monitors work better than floor standers here, and sealed boxes better than ported ones. This setup also prevents the speakers from being placed into the room, hence a decent 3D soundstage from appearing.

I have chosen the n-Sats because their known unripeness and lack of lower extension, plus their 'clarity', help creating a detailed presentation which I sometimes favor over big sound and effects. I mostly like to replay piano, small jazz combos and classical, acoustic songwriters like Randy Newman or Joni Mitchell.

I have had, or demoed, a number of speakers here:

Marten Design Miles II (very fine, but needing important amps)
Naim SBLs (very satisfying with certain amps and music)
Naim Arivas (either my samples had been tweaked or they were excessively dark and boomy)
Naim Credos (mildly uninteresting)
rega R7s (surprisingly enough, boomy and with uncontrolled bass)
Naim Ovator S-400s (big and somehow uninteresting unless driven by a thin sounding, dynamic amp)
Klipsch Heresy IIIs - very good with my amp, but too large visually and not refined in the treble.
Plus forgotten others.

Now, I cannot only listen to those few things that sound good with the Sats; I need to be able to replay a symphonic piece with some degree of body (I am not after deep bass or seismic dynamics) without hearing a nasal, thin voice. I like the PrimaLuna so it's going to stay.
I have also come to the twofold conclusion that:

a) one should choose some speakers that more or less honestly sound ok with anything, without looking for special sonic features or expecting miracles that cannot - and perhaps shouldn't - be obtained at home;
b) perhaps the single most 'convincing' trait of a speaker in order to enjoy the illusion of some immersion into the recording is good soundstage and ambience retrieval. These the Sats cannot honestly do.

So, before I resign myself to the implied suggestion by fate that home audio is a silly game from which no real satisfaction can be had and that only some people actually manage to get musical involvement from hifi, to which group I don't belong, can someone give opinions/suggestions on speakers that tick most of these boxes please?

- Small size (not more than LS5/9s)
- A regular impedance pattern that won't disturb my innocent, lovely amp
- Sealed box (or, if a port is absolutely unavoidable, a front one)
- Decent sensitivity (at least 88 dB/1W)
- Can be placed close to the wall
- Do not require more than a 40W amp to be audible
- No particular sound signature and a honest approach to all kinds of acoustic music.

Thanks for all opinions that will help me not selling everything and being content with Internet Radio.
M.

(P.S. Opinions on the Sats are unnecessary..)
 
How close do you listen to the set-up,and what are the relative proportions to the 'T' shaped room?
I can't help thinking that's lot of the issue - if effectively you have a large opening on the one side between you and the sound source, then strange things will happen; and given typical room dimensions, these will be in low end to high bass - which is probably why ambience and tonal body etc goes awry as you suggest - even if you are not after deep bass.
 
Contemporary active designs are full-range, hugely adjustable, sophisticated built in tone and peq they just work in the large majority or rooms.
Keith
 
Martin,

thanks for your reply. I listen 3 mt. or so from the speakers, which are 2-odd mt. apart. I'll try to post a map of the room so you can have a better idea of it.

Keith,
I hadn't thought of active designs, with which I suppose you don't mean loudspeakers without internal crossover but amplified ones. I would rather not go as far as such costly solutions though..

M.
 
Why do you keep looking at Naim speakers when you clearly don't like them? And you describe your amp as lovely but have yet to find any satisfaction with the music it makes?

Plus you only want tiny, invisible speakers when your room demands bigger ones?

Basically, it's your own fault you haven't assembled a satisfying system. You're putting prerequisites in place and then complaining about their effects. I expect you'll still be going round in circles for years.
 
Mr Pig said:
Why do you keep looking at Naim speakers when you clearly don't like them? And you describe your amp as lovely but have yet to find any satisfaction with the music it makes?

Plus you only want tiny, invisible speakers when your room demands bigger ones?

Basically, it's your own fault you haven't assembled a satisfying system. You're putting prerequisites in place and then complaining about their effects. I expect you'll still be going round in circles for years.
Click to expand...

Could you please avoid circumlocutions and go straight to the point please..?
:)

Thanks, I'll reflect upon this. But you may consider not having enough elements to be so trenchant.. Not very helpful but not completely useless either.
 
Given your taste in music and the amplifier, I would say you need to try Tannoys - maybe Eatons or if you can get away with the size - Chatsworths with Monitor Golds.

They won’t stress the amp and will give you the scale and body you are after and importantly, they really are quite flattering to all sorts of recordings.

They also have treble controls and will respond to being placed lower or closer to the wall, or on a higher mass support, to tune the bass response.

You mustn’t give up without at least trying some form of Tannoy. In my experience they marry the tonal weight of BBC type speakers with openness, sensitivity and dynamics in a way that is effortlessly musical.
 
Maxbertola said:
Could you please avoid circumlocutions and go straight to the point please..?
Click to expand...

I am actually trying to help you, I'm just not a sycophant and your position is untenable.

You want tiny speakers when pretty much nothing that small is going to be able to drive a room that size properly. You want tiny speakers that work well close to the wall. Most speakers that fit the bill are inefficient and even with good power are very limited in their volume capabilities. You're basically looking to drive a large room with nearfield monitors.

You mentioned LS3/5a's and to be honest, if you only listen to the kind of music you listed they are a contender but only at low volume. Personally, I would accept that you need bigger speakers as I think that's the easiest way to get what you want. And if you can't position speakers where they need to be in the room you'll never get what you want.

Another way to go is speakers that are less fussy about where they sit and might be domestically acceptable. Omnis like Shahinian, sound really nice, not fussy. Not too hard to drive, still a stretch with a little valve amp but...
 
Go large, go Tannoy… seriously my Cheviots are no deeper or taller than my Kans, but they are twice as wide. You’ve seen them in my lounge, if you can borrow/demo a pair it might work
 
Possibly, you can solve many of the problems by accepting nearfield listening. I mean really near. In which case I'd buy some tiny Harbethsor their ilk. A few watts will be plenty in that situation, and the weird sounds that you T shaped space is clearly contributing now will be gone. Get yourseld 5 or 6 feet from your speakers, with them at a max of 6' apart, but well away from any corners.

Worth a try.
 
ATC anything that will fit your room and budget. I agree with others who have suggested nearer field listening as an option. Don’t be scared to consider active.
 
Just waiting for the Flac :D

Mind you a very different series of speaker which could fit the bill, although I'm not sure if they are still made?
 
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