advertisement


Beam Echo Avantic Appreciation Thread

Thanks for this insight. I don't have GRFs knocking about. However, in terms of similarity, I do have a couple of pairs of Isophon Orchester 12" concentrics waiting for a home. Maybe they'll do. All I need is someone to make the corner cabinets for me from their 60a catalogue and pick a nice veneer.

As I remember them, the Klangfilm Isophons were good. Despite being smaller and claims sometimes made to the contrary, they were in no sense comparable with the big Tannoy or 605 Altec Lansing - they were not the equal of the 12" Tannoy - but nevertheless, they were a well-regarded and desirable driver.

I have no knowledge of their 60a enclosure but if you were to consider an alternative cabinet, you might give some thought to the corner Canterbury which, unquestionably, was Tannoy's best enclosure for their 12" unit and I'm sure would work excellently with your Isophons.

In my view, used with with your first class amplification equipment, you would have something decidedly special. I'm sure you will enjoy it immensely.
 
I had to google the Isophon Orchester as I'd never heard of it! Looks interesting, dual concentric, but with a pole-piece-positioned paper cone tweeter, in fact concept wise very like the speaker in my Roland CB100 bass amp! Some very interesting audio kit appearing on this thread for sure, we need more pictures!
 
As I remember them, the Klangfilm Isophons were good. Despite being smaller and claims sometimes made to the contrary, they were in no sense comparable with the big Tannoy or 605 Altec Lansing - they were not the equal of the 12" Tannoy - but nevertheless, they were a well-regarded and desirable driver.

I have no knowledge of their 60a enclosure but if you were to consider an alternative cabinet, you might give some thought to the corner Canterbury which, unquestionably, was Tannoy's best enclosure for their 12" unit and I'm sure would work excellently with your Isophons.

In my view, used with with your first class amplification equipment, you would have something decidedly special. I'm sure you will enjoy it immensely.

Hi, well I'm not sure if we're talking about the same driver, but the best way for me to find out is experiment and see. The Oswald Mill chap, Jonathan Weiss, spoke well of the Orchester in comparison to the 12" Tannoy equivalent.

That said, I'm keen to explore the outer limits of what this amp is comfortable delivering. I think they may be quite far out, so to speak. In a way, I wish I still had the Fertin FLB20EX field coil drivers I used to run. I'd be keen to hear them on the end of some Klangfilm Eurodyns or Bionors, but space precludes that. I have a friend in Berlin who has both. Sadly I don't have a German/Austrian-sized mansion flat to suit!
 
Looking at the underside of the one pictured I have a feeling they have been done fairly recently as some electrolytic caps, a couple of resistors etc look pretty recent. Hard to tell at that picture resolution as to what else is old/new, but I doubt these will need much doing at all. They seem nicely free of botching. I'd personally be very reluctant to do anything beyond replacing components like for like, e.g. use paper in oil caps where they resided previously etc (Russian military ones are superb and affordable, e.g. K40-Y9 etc).

Agree they won't need much doing at all.
Maybe the electrolytic 6th from right as it doesn't look period.
The resistors will need checking for values as those can tend to change resistance over the years. I'd use quality period items like Iskra or Piher.
Have to disagree with the coupling caps. Those 'mustards' are probably original fitment and will be perfect, they rarely go wrong (I've never seen one), and will easily outlast and outperform Russion PIO's , very good as they are. I certainly would not replace those.
Henry
 
Been busy with the cosmetics and lots of listening sessions. (I will post pics when I have more time.)

Also been looking for any old Beam Echo adverts etc.
Only found this from 1960:

fci5h5.jpg




And by coincidence a pair of 'repro' DL7s has just come up on the bay: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=131784115460
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Interesting, anyone know the back-story of the reproductions? They appear to have official looking info on the rear pannels, so don't look like a DIY knock-up.
 
Interesting, anyone know the back-story of the reproductions? They appear to have official looking info on the rear pannels, so don't look like a DIY knock-up.

Stuart Perry (Mortise Antenon) was behind the recent revival. I've managed to link up with him on Facebook and had a few interesting conversations. Something apocryphal about finding a pair of DL7s in a skip, wiring them up and being blown away, and more to that effect. Been hoping to dig more info' out of him, about his experience making the 90s/00s versions.
 
Here are some pictures of one of the pairs of Orchesters I have. I also have bass drivers from Isophon somewhere, the Isophon P30/37/10.

8145967223_23a7179c71_z.jpg


8145998298_db1cd50229_z.jpg


8145998600_937ece1e5c_z.jpg
 
Agree they won't need much doing at all.
Maybe the electrolytic 6th from right as it doesn't look period.
The resistors will need checking for values as those can tend to change resistance over the years. I'd use quality period items like Iskra or Piher.
Have to disagree with the coupling caps. Those 'mustards' are probably original fitment and will be perfect, they rarely go wrong (I've never seen one), and will easily outlast and outperform Russion PIO's , very good as they are. I certainly would not replace those.
Henry

15019421273_5425682c90.jpg


The two orange wrapped caps have since expired (in both amps), so will need replacing. The mustards are fine, if I recall correctly. Will know in a few weeks, when we get our items out of storage from Leeds, after their long trip from NZ.

Really pleased to know you are not averse to using period items, where sensible. Glad to have made contact.
 
Here's an image of someone else's 57, showing the trafos and the huge Hunts capacitor. Just got a couple of spares of those from a UK vintage specialist:

100_0740.jpg


And here's the schematic:

besch.gif
 
That looks like a seriously well made amp. Avantic go right to the top of my 'want to find' list! Those speakers look lovely too, immaculate condition by the looks of it. What looks like a doped paper surround too, so not much to go off over time.
 
That looks like a seriously well made amp. Avantic go right to the top of my 'want to find' list! Those speakers look lovely too, immaculate condition by the looks of it. What looks like a doped paper surround too, so not much to go off over time.

Hi, yes, well it was a stroke of luck that saw me find them. I often wonder if I would need anything else for playing music. I'm really keen to get them back on their feet, with period parts as appropriate, and care for them properly.

And yes, the Orchesters have a doped surround. Set up to switch between 4 or 16 ohms, with a simple adjustment on the back. Yet to hear them in all their glory but perhaps I'll get enough time to this year (if I don't have to travel too much).
 
Here you go. If you prefer a pdf, please PM me and I'll send it through. The more these things are shared, the more they will live:

26455273406_4ba28fb9f5_b.jpg


26388862182_956d5e21c6_b.jpg


25876296234_7df6ae3226_b.jpg


26481168565_e9f4194ee8_b.jpg


26455244976_6861af5d51_b.jpg


25876282744_dbff254a15_b.jpg


25876280694_09c936f783_b.jpg


26388842172_7b48e143da_b.jpg


25878315063_010bbdf299_b.jpg
 
^^ That is a Yes please from me. ^^

And another DL7 has popped up on ebay today, in the States. It's the earlier point to point wired version as a contrast to the tag board one.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=121959165935

I 'borrowed' this under skirt shot from there...

2wd24xg.jpg

Looks nice. Prefer mine though! :)

As far as I know, the amps came either with Gresham or Partridge transformers. I can't see Gresham marked on the bottom of the transformers, so perhaps these are Partridge?

Both Gresham and Partridge were very high quality items, and both subsumed into another business who still operates today and owns the rights to their designs.
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
An advert for Gresham transformers - made to military (NATO) standards, apparently. I believe, though, that Gresham started trading toward the end of WW2.

Im195506WW-Gresham.jpg
 
And here are some comments from Russ57, made on the AA, when I first started enquiring about getting the amps serviced, last year. You may find this interesting as a commentary on the maintenance of a Mullard 5-20 amp:



"The power supply transformer takes your wall voltage and "transforms" it to the various voltages required. It does this by the ratio of turns of insulated wire. If there was a fault in the transformer you could have anything from wrong voltages to excessive power draw....to smoke/fire. The best you can do is remove all tubes and compare voltages on all windings between the two amps. I'd want to see them under 10% and the closer the better.

The transformer sends AC voltage to the GZ34. The GZ34 turns that into DC voltage with "AC ripple voltage" imposed on it. We want to get rid of the ripple voltage. The capacitors (C14,11,6, and 5) perform this function (and other functions). We call them filter caps (but some are also decoupling caps). C14 should have a low impedance (name for AC resistance which involes a few parameters) path to ground for the AC ripple voltage but no connection to ground for the DC voltage. The larger the size of C14, the lower the impedance to ground at a given hertz. The use of a tube rectifier limits it size though. If C14 passed DC voltage to ground we would call it "leaky".

If C14 was leaky, and passing DC voltage ground, we would have a few symptoms, depending on how leaky it was. If minor, DC voltage would be low. If it leaked a little more power transformer might be warmer then normal, GZ34 life might be lower. If higher yet we might blow fuses. If C14 was warmer then normal, or the case distorted in shape, those would be warning signs.

If C14's impedance to ground had raised, due to age and such, ripple voltage would be higher than normal. An Oscope is the best way to see but some digital multi-meters can measure AC, DC, and hertz all at the same time. Make sure, because a lot of them can't, and I'd hate to see you get hurt.

C14 also controls "conduction angle" of the GZ34. If there was no C14, and L1 was big enough in relation to the load to meet "critical inductance", then the GZ34 would conduct for the entire sine wave (first one plate for half of it then the other plate for the other half of the transformer winding). DC voltage would be around 0.9 times the AC voltage from power transformer. You do have a C14 so the GZ34 only conducts for a part of the sine wave. The bigger C14 the smaller the conduction angle (time). DC voltage would be upwards of 1.4 times the AC voltage (neglecting GZ34 voltage loss which is a few tens of volts).

Given that the GZ34 only conducts for a brief period it passes a high current spike to C14 (and this causes problems). C14 must be charged with enough power (joules) to power the amp for the remainder of the sine wave during which the GZ34 is turned off. 4uF strikes me as rather small for that job given EL34 output tubes. There seems to be notes to the efect that C14 is dual case so it might actually be 8uF in total.

Next, after C14, DC goes to L1, a choke. The choke has a low resistance path to DC voltage so it lets it go right through. It has a high impedance to AC which is a function of size (henry) and hertz. It is also an energy storage device. Suffice to say it is there to reduce ripple voltage also.

Now we send DC voltage to output transformers. Because it is a push pull amp we don't need the same degree of ripple reduction that we would for a SET amp. Still I'd wish to see under a volt.

Then we go on the C11 and R10. This reduces the ripple voltage even more and adds some more energy storage to feed the ECC83 tube. As the ECC83 sees an audio signal its current goes up and down. This creates an AC voltage which is passed on through C7 and C8 to the EL34's. Some of this signal voltage is seen by C11/R10/C6 and they are the return path to ground for it. It that way they "decouple" this from the rest of the amp's circuit. Pretty much same thing for R9/C5 which feed the EF86.

So, to recap, these parts are there to:
a) reduce ripple voltage
b) to provide energy storage
c) to provide a return path for signal created voltages and decouple one stage from another

In regards to "balance" between amps I rate the following as most important:
a) matching of cathode bias resistors and plate load resistors
b) matching of tubes
c) matching of all other resistors
d) matching of coupling caps (C7 and C8)
e) matching of the power supply/decoulping caps is of little importance

Some general notes:
a) Many parts have improved greatly over the years. This is especially true of capacitors. Any electrolytic cap over ten years of age should be replaced with a 105C rated part.
b) Some parts have not improved. Vintage tubes and transformers are often superior.
c) Vinatge audio owners often fall in love with the sound of old out of tolerance/poor quality parts. When amps are "made better" with new parts they may feel "the vintage sound" has been lost and their amp is ruined. This is, of course, utter nonsense but be forewarned.
"
 


advertisement


Back
Top