Balanced v Unbalanced

[Jim Audiomisc]

Switching phono amps is particularly complex because the overall frequency response as well as the gain may well change. Hence while a change in the 'sound' can be quite noticable in some cases, determining the specific cause can be more of a challenge!

 

[CJ14]

As a matter of note I did a bit of work on the Cambridge kit and I can say the circuit are nearly always balance type internally, the design work was done by a really lovely man called Larry Reid, unfortunately some of the crap bit were done by Mr. Self, like paralleling OP together and not checking the matching properties and causing major firework within.
The Balance digital volume control they used was superb the best I have ever seen good work Cambridge.
The Bias that change the o/p to Class A or A/B was another disaster that Larry fixed again done by Mr. Self. more smoke and hot bit, I am glad to say no public amps were allowed to be manufactured in this disgraceful design, but again Larry to the rescue.
Not impressed by Mr Self his designs are great in theory but practical they are not.

Larry now works and own Reid Acoustic Ltd and a true design centre and I have had the pleasure of working with him a few project.

 

[iansr]

Bruno Putzey, John Westlake and Tom Christianson (among others) are all fervent advocates of differential interconnects. If that’s not good enough for you then I’d suggest some introspective meditation might be called for.

 

[March Audio]

Balanced in itself will not sound any better or worse than single ended. BUT it WILL rid you of the fundamental problem of noise currents flowing in a signal wire as with RCA. Connecting the chassis of your kit together with a signal wire is really dumb idea. The signal will get modulated by that current through the resistance of the cable. Balanced will also be more immune to external common mode noise. For those 2 reasons alone I would always use balanced if available. Pretty much all the recordings people have are recorded using balanced kit so Im not sure why there is so much debate about it.

 

[Nic Robinson]

[Moderating]
Looks like this thread has cooled a bit...please can we keep it civil?

 

[TheDecameron]

It’s an interesting subject. So many users, including myself will comment that balanced sounds better. Is the higher output voltage simply making it a bit louder, hence ‘better’ sounding? If it’s primarily a marketing feature in Hifi then it’s been successful- on me!

 

[misterdog]

I wonder why cable foo has failed to gain any traction in the pro/balanced camp?

There is no market for foo in pro audio. Maybe a clue in the word Pro.

Star quad v non.

 

[misterdog]

Difference in price between Starquad Van Damme cable and 'ordinary' Van Damme Microphone cable is 45 pence per metre.

https://www.designacable.com/musici...tar-quad-balanced-male-xlr-to-female-xlr.html

I think some assume that if you pay £ 000 for a 'special' domestic RCA phono cable it must sound better.. Because we are enthusiasts.

 

[March Audio]

It’s an interesting subject. So many users, including myself will comment that balanced sounds better. Is the higher output voltage simply making it a bit louder, hence ‘better’ sounding? If it’s primarily a marketing feature in Hifi then it’s been successful- on me!

Volume is critical when performing comparisons. It needs to be within 0.1dB. Louder will always win.

 

[John Phillips]

It’s an interesting subject. So many users, including myself will comment that balanced sounds better. Is the higher output voltage simply making it a bit louder, hence ‘better’ sounding? If it’s primarily a marketing feature in Hifi then it’s been successful- on me!

Balanced circuits and interconnect seem to be gaining traction in the non-professional market. However I doubt (as others have said) that well engineered balanced circuits and balanced interconnect are going to sound better in the home than well engineered single-ended circuits across an non-balanced RCA/phono lead.

The OP indicates his kit is designed with balanced circuits and has provision for balanced interconnection. So it avoids the problems of balanced interconnect being tacked badly on to a single-ended circuit. In that case I would always take the balanced interconnect option. My core kit is all balanced.

For a start, with a higher voltage swing the balanced signal will be further above the noise floor.

And the problem of "exactly what point on 'ground' is your single-ended signal voltage referred to?" disappears when the signal is balanced. I think that problem can be dealt with properly in well engineered non-balanced equipment (e.g. by avoiding ground noise currents flowing between boxes and adding to the signal) and I am sure it is in most products, but I don't know a way to check it.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

There is no market for foo in pro audio.

Actually, there is. But it tends to surface in the form of 'gurus' who 'improve' recordings by doing things like level compressing and clipping to the ceiling because of the 'foo' assumption that LOUDNESS SELLS and to hell with sound quality.

 

[savvypaul]

I find it hard to get past the idea that balanced connections on domestic kit are simply a marketing / money extraction device aimed at the suggestible...

 

[Purité Audio]

Pro audio equipment is balanced and that is comparatively inexpensive, I don't see any disadvantages to balanced differential.
Keith

 

[savvypaul]

Pro audio equipment is balanced and that is comparatively inexpensive, I don't see any disadvantages to balanced differential.
Keith

Why is it NEEDED for domestic hifi?

 

[cooky1257]

Why is it NEEDED for domestic hifi?

I haven't seen anyone say it's NEEDED but if you have it use it/give it a go you may like it/sleep better a night etc etc

 

[SteveG]

I haven't seen anyone say it's NEEDED but if you have it use it/give it a go you may like it/sleep better a night etc etc

At £30-40 or so it's not as if we're talking about expensive interconnects to try it out - plus I needed to buy another interconnect as I've run out. If I'd had to pay £300 for a balanced interconnect I wouldn't even be asking the question.

 

[savvypaul]

I haven't seen anyone say it's NEEDED but if you have it use it/give it a go you may like it/sleep better a night etc etc

At £30-40 or so it's not as if we're talking about expensive interconnects to try it out - plus I needed to buy another interconnect as I've run out. If I'd had to pay £300 for a balanced interconnect I wouldn't even be asking the question.

Sure, but why are balanced connections fitted to domestic kit?

 

[George J]

Sure, but why are balanced connections fitted to domestic kit?

That would be a question best answered by the designer of the equipment, would it not?

I have one piece with balanced outputs [which I cannot use], beside the normal RCA sockets. I have no idea why, but the designer put them there for some reason or another.

Best wishes from George

 

[Purité Audio]

Because it is good design practise.
Keith

 

[Joe Hutch]

I find it hard to get past the idea that balanced connections on domestic kit are simply a marketing / money extraction device aimed at the suggestible...

See also: bi-wiring terminals on loudspeakers. Many speakers designers say these are not needed, but 'have' to fit them because otherwise punters feel short-changed.