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Bach Cello Suites

Tony L said:
Its not a hi-fi thing for me, I have 15” Tannoys in huge Lockwood studio cabs, so very similar to say Decca’s studio system at the time of the legendary SXL recordings. My issue is a) a church organ, like a harpsichord, has no dynamic range (the keys are simple switches that don’t respond to velocity or touch), and b) the thing makes everything sound like religion!

I need to have another go with it though. I love Bach as a composer and he wrote a heck of a lot of stuff for this medium, so really I need to get beyond my preconceptions of the instrument and give it a better chance.
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Clearly the harpsichord can’t make short phrases louder or quieter. But there are other ways that good harpsichordists attract the listener’s attention to a phrase of even an individual note - by hesitating for a microsecond, for example.

This makes harpsichord style very different from piano style. What doesn’t work well is to play early keyboard music on a harpsichord pianistically. Harpsichord style is much more about creating varieties of textures and expression through delicate rubato.

There are so many things a good organ has which no piano can touch! Gravitas, colour, depth. Some of the best baroque music is really only playable on two keyboards and a pedalboard. If you don’t learn to appreciate organ and harpsichord you’re effectively cutting yourself off from a lot of music, a lot of Bach and not just Bach.

I don’t know about making everything sound like religion, thak God I don’t have the God gene so I don’t notice such things!
 
lagavullin10y said:
Tony, let me help you on B.

I'm a religious person myself, tho very liberal. I listen and see and draw my own conclusions - unlike many people (not only in church, but in any place - I find nowadays (liberal(!)) church a relief to what politicians or scientists are telling on tv). My vicar is married gay, something which would not be accepted at the local football club.

But, its not about that. In my country - the Netherlands - the most impressive instruments were commissioned by governments, not the church. In my county the tower and the gates of the church did in the past belong to the government and only the choir and main ship or the building to the church.

Organs were commissioned by the government and their sole purpose was to impress the people of the city - going to church, or visitors from other cities. It was 'who has the longest' avant la lettre.

This very organ - Haarlem - is a prime example of it:

800px-Sint_bavo_haarlem_orgel_front_1010116.jpg
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You’re very fortunate to live in a country with so many well restored excellent and interesting baroque organs!
 
Tony L said:
My issue is a) a church organ, like a harpsichord, has no dynamic range (the keys are simple switches that don’t respond to velocity or touch), and b) the thing makes everything sound like religion!

I need to have another go with it though. I love Bach as a composer and he wrote a heck of a lot of stuff for this medium, so really I need to get beyond my preconceptions of the instrument and give it a better chance.
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No dynamic range...hmmmmm. And as for the religiosity bit, ignore it. Someone believing in unicorns should not get in the way of music. I won't even go into a church, but I can still enjoy pieces like Handel's Messiah, its just a fairy story, after all.
 
Regarding dynamics on harpsichord: the technique of overlegato playing allows the player to increase dynamics. Of course not to the full extend as we know on piano's, but at least a significant increase.

Example: when you play a scale from c to g, you push first the c, then the d, then e, f, g and keep the keys pushed in. Depending on your wish, you release the keys again. It's basically building clusters. I've been tortured on this when I studied harpsichord. Not a native technique for organists!

Going back to the cello suites, I could imagine that such a technique also exists on cellos to bind the notes in a nice legato - where needed.
 
Casals on mono vinyl: https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8475769--js-bach-the-cello-suites-vinyl-edition (sounds pretty good for a 30s recording).

Queyras is my modern preference: https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7961375--bach-j-s-cello-suites-nos-1-6-bwv1007-1012

Gavriel Lipkind, originally released on Berlin Classics SACD. Performance is quite good, sound is one of the best I’ve heard from a solo cello recording: https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8018756--bach-j-s-cello-suites-nos-1-6-bwv1007-1012
 
I must say I’ve never understood the mystique of Casals. He plays the Preludes and sarabandes interestingly enough, but in the faster dances I just can’t hear why he’s supposed to be special.
 
philiphifi said:
i have Tortelier, Casals and Ma. Which CDs are best for Fournier? I'll also try Demenga. Thanks for that.
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Do you mean the best sounding for Fournier? I have the DG Archiv CD set from the 80s and bought the Complete Fournier box when it came out, the mastering on the two sound quite similar.
 
yes - i found the small cd box for Glen Gould is better mastered than the big box so i wanted to know the best recordings. Thanks very much
 
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