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B&W DM4

H

HCeline

New Member
Hi people I'm new to here and wanted to ask some advice.

I've just picked up some DM4's that I got cheap. I wanted these to replace my B&W P4's which have a cracked tweeter. I have had the P4's for ages powered by a nait 3, but have grown to dislike this set up. I found the sound to have great bass extension but mids a highs are horrible leading to a muddy presentation. I also have just got a A&R A60 which has improved the sound a little but is still not right.

So today I gave the DM4's a run and although the mids and highs sounded better there was a distinct lack of lower frequencies and the over all sound didn't have any of the richness of the P4's.

Does anyone have experience with both or either of these speakers. I know the white woofer models are prone to shrinkage but I'm wondering if they need to recapped or if there is a problem with the crossovers.

These a my first pair of vintage speakers so I'm also not sure if I was expecting to much from them, but after hearing the difference between the A60 and Nait 3 I was sure that a vintage rich sound would suit me.

Can anyone recommend anywhere to get them serviced if thats what they need or any budget alternatives (before looking at these was considering some ae109's or MA252's).
 
I had some of the DM4s many moons ago, you'd be better off with some later, more modern speakers a lot of really good value speakers out there, maybe have a look at the cheaper Proac and Dynaudio ranges? Hope this some help.
 
Speakers are a personal thing, and I like the DM4's very much. I have mine on a shelf against a wall. I think that they are designed for this as the bass is reinforced. Putting them on stands away from walls will make them a bit bass light.

Replacing the capacitors will not help the bass, or anything else in my view. The capacitors are not electrolytic and seem to last a long long time.

The DM4's are not disco speakers so don't expect very high levels, they were not designed for that, but what you should get is a very nice musical speaker. The treble from the Celestion HF1300 / Coles 4001G is very good.
 
I bought a pair of DM4s a few years ago for about $100.00 cdn. I had always said that if I found a cheap pair I would buy them and so I did. I hooked them up to my Naim 250 and let then play....really loud....they were amazing.No problems at even high levels. I bought them with the intent of using them outside around the pool (I take them in and out as needed of course and don't leave them out in weather). I now use them poolside with a powered subwoofer and a 45 WPC luxman amplifier......like live concert sound. If I find another pair, I will buy them! You've got a great pair of speakers there. Put them on some solid supports, feed them with decent power and wire and you'll have many years of enjoyment .
 
Radfordman said:
Speakers are a personal thing, and I like the DM4's very much. I have mine on a shelf against a wall. I think that they are designed for this as the bass is reinforced. Putting them on stands away from walls will make them a bit bass light.

Replacing the capacitors will not help the bass, or anything else in my view. The capacitors are not electrolytic and seem to last a long long time.

The DM4's are not disco speakers so don't expect very high levels, they were not designed for that, but what you should get is a very nice musical speaker. The treble from the Celestion HF1300 / Coles 4001G is very good.
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I totally agree with the last paragraph. I had a pair and loved them. Very musical, much like my BC1s. Space limitations meant they had to go, and now have a very happy owner in Paris.
 
I had some B & W DM4's bought from new in the 70's. I also had both the dedicated wall brackets supplied by B & W which enabled close wall coupling, and subsequently got the B&W dedicated single cylinder stands (which some one somewhere must have) I think , as i recall, i filled the stands with sand, but I bet they would sound better with a sand filled stand from a specialist stand manufacturer eg Atacama or Partington, indeed I think, if they were more ridgidly supported on such stands, then this would have paid dividends in terms of bass control. Fancied buying a pair again to experiment with them as they sounded good at the time. Eventualy traded them in for some smaller speakers, in the interests of domestic harmony (Castle Trent 1's) which though nice in the midrange, didn't match the B & W's in terms of scale. Don't forget that a speaker can sound vastly different dependent on the quality and control exerted by the amplifier.
 
Don't forget the B & W D5. The friend I had the DM4s from preferred his D5s. They worked well in his smallish room, on stands. In fact, he still has them. He also had some DM2s at one time ! Lovely speakers... Martyn Miles .
 
Can't B&W replace the tweeter diaphragm in the P4's? These were quite bassy in balance as I remember, so I'm not surprised the DM4's didn't suit. Maybe some still working DM3's??????? I believe the CDM-7 replaced the P4's didn't it?
 
A few years back, I purchased replacement tweeters for my P4s from B&W when I thought one of the originals had developed a fault. Turned out not to be a faulty tweeter, but replacing them showed me just how much the sound had deteriorated over the years. They weren't that expensive and are a doddle to fit. It was like buying a new pair of speakers.
 
Heath said:
A few years back, I purchased replacement tweeters for my P4s from B&W when I thought one of the originals had developed a fault. Turned out not to be a faulty tweeter, but replacing them showed me just how much the sound had deteriorated over the years. They weren't that expensive and are a doddle to fit. It was like buying a new pair of speakers.
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I don't know the model, but possible the Ferrofluid drying out. I had this happen on some tweeters. I avoid tweeters with this stuff in now.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions.

I have just picked up some Heybrook point five stands for the DM4s and have placed them closer to the wall. I have also bought some new cable. The speakers are sounding a lot better now although they are never going to compete with the P4s bass, they sound so much better esp with vocals and band music. Not sure if I can live with them for heavier electronic sounds though. I will definitely keep them as there is something magical about their sound.

Looks like I on a search for some speakers that can give me some of the magic of the DM4s with deeper bass. Any ideas?

Martyn Miles - Do the DM2s or 5s have as nice a treble as the DM4s and better bass extension?

Heath - Thats really interesting, I was intending to replace the P4 tweeter but mainly to sell them.

I also tried my new speaker cable (cheap stuff from Flashback) with the Nait3 and the P4s and to my surprise it sounded better than the naim naca. The new cable sounds clearer and more separated. I have not tried any other cable before as naim advise to only use theirs. Can you use other cable with naim?
I'm now looking at getting some better cable any one using talk 3 or 7?
 
It's a good idea to check that the Coles supertweeters are working. There is not much coming out of them normally. They just a a little sparkle to the sound.

The DM2 and DM2a use the same tweeters as the DM4, so treble is very similar. The bass is deeper and more powerful, but in my view, the DM4 just beats it on midrange.

You can try playing with with the DM4 port tuning to change the bass. It is a good compromise as it is, but blocking up the port completely will firm up the bass a bit and extend it downwards a little, the trade off is greater cone excursion and reduced power handling.
 
Hi,

Brand new here and I would love to have some advice regarding DM4. I felt in love as soon as I saw them in an antiquarian around the corner. I have the opportunity to buy a pair of DM4 in a very good shape except ... there''s no fuse & cap ... my question is : Can it work without fuse? If not, how can I replace those caps? I guess I can hardly find them in stores ... thanks!
 
I seem to remember that some DM4's had a fuse, DM5's certainly did.

The capacitors in the DM4 crossover are not electrolytic, and are of good quality, should still be OK.
 
I just took a punt on a pair of very early Celestion Ditton 25's (the ones that look like they've been made in a shed with the hookup wires for the tweeters routed IN FRONT of the baffle not behind!). After discovering that several of said tweeters weren't actually working, the seller threw in a free pair of B&W DM4s, which was nice of him! I have to say the DM4s sound rather good, very clean, clear and articulate, but I'm not convinced the Coles supertweeters are working properly (if at all) because the HF rolls of sharply above 13kHz, which I understand is the HF1300/4001 crossover point. I'm quite surprised and embarrassed to think they sound so good if the Coles units are indeed not producing any output!
 
ToTo Man said:
I just took a punt on a pair of very early Celestion Ditton 25's (the ones that look like they've been made in a shed with the hookup wires for the tweeters routed IN FRONT of the baffle not behind!). After discovering that several of said tweeters weren't actually working, the seller threw in a free pair of B&W DM4s, which was nice of him! I have to say the DM4s sound rather good, very clean, clear and articulate, but I'm not convinced the Coles supertweeters are working properly (if at all) because the HF rolls of sharply above 13kHz, which I understand is the HF1300/4001 crossover point. I'm quite surprised and embarrassed to think they sound so good if the Coles units are indeed not producing any output!
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Measure the resistance of the Coles 4001G's, they should be around 23 Ohms. If they are, it's likely that they are OK.

The DM4 has a roll off for the HF1300 incorporated in the crossover. If the Coles are blown and are not going to be replaced, this roll off for the 1300 could be removed giving an extended response.
 
In my view, the Celestion HF1300 / Coles 4001G or HF1300/ Celestion HF2000, is a combination difficult to beat.
 
I recommended DM4s to a friend of mine about 40 years ago when he was buying his first hi fi system, he bought the matching stands for them as well.

Some time later I borrowed them to try on the end of my LP12/NAC12/NAP160 set up and I was amazed by the amount of bass they could produce, they really shook the floor!

I don't think the DM4 lacks bass on the end of a good amplifier.
 
I had a pair of P4s and these are really nice speakers with some of the lowest bass you can get from a speaker of this size, it is not the regular bas reflex. But the weakest part are the tweeters - the ferro fluid turns into jelly pretty fast, I went through three pairs and finally I gave up. But if you can buy a new pair of tweeters it will be cheaper than buying I new pair of speakers. I think... Someday I will implant a new tweeter and use an active crossover on them, they are so beautiful in that rosewood veneer.

Please take your time with speakers, this is the weakest link in the audio chain and if I were to start over I would just get a few pairs and see which one best suits my room. No other component changes it character if you move it 5cm in a direction or toe it in.
 
Nikola Krivorov said:
I had a pair of P4s and these are really nice speakers with some of the lowest bass you can get from a speaker of this size, it is not the regular bas reflex. But the weakest part are the tweeters - the ferro fluid turns into jelly pretty fast, I went through three pairs and finally I gave up. But if you can buy a new pair of tweeters it will be cheaper than buying I new pair of speakers. I think... Someday I will implant a new tweeter and use an active crossover on them, they are so beautiful in that rosewood veneer.

Please take your time with speakers, this is the weakest link in the audio chain and if I were to start over I would just get a few pairs and see which one best suits my room. No other component changes it character if you move it 5cm in a direction or toe it in.
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No ferrofluid in any of the DM4 drivers.
 
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