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Avondale NCC220 vs Witch Hat Phoenix

All these posts talking about the sound or about specific components used and how they are arranged is very interesting information but amount to a hill of beans if the end result negatively effects the tune.
I have ordered a pair so I will let people know how they sound once I receive
 
stupid question these suitable for a diy build it was going to be ncc220 but these seem very well reviewed only difference be the smaller spades?
Yes the Witchat use the smaller spades to keep comparability with the older NAPs

architecturally they are different though as discussed previously
 
Anyway, apart from the technical breakdown of the two approaches, I am very interested in purchasing a pair of the Witchhats so I'm hoping you might just provide a little more detail on how you you think they are better.

The 220's in my experience are excellent in providing a very wide sound stage and on illuminating the top end detail. The Witchhats from what I can gather don't provide quite such a wide enveloping sound stage but the stage presentation is more defined. So I'm guessing that each instrument /vocalist is better placed, easier to follow, better overall cohesion? Would you say the sound stage more 3 dimensional with the Witchhats?
I find it difficult to describe how the sound is better but to me it's more musical, a bit less hifi, retaining the PRaT that early Naim gear is famed for. There is certainly better placement of the musicians within the sound stage. As for the 220s giving a wider sound stage, I wouldn't say that's the case. With the Phoenix the sound stage seems to extend beyond the width of the speakers & has better depth.

If you're anywhere near the West Midlands, you are very welcome to come for a listen
 
All these posts talking about the sound or about specific components used and how they are arranged is very interesting information but amount to a hill of beans if the end result negatively effects the tune.

It doesn't
 
I find it difficult to describe how the sound is better but to me it's more musical, a bit less hifi, retaining the PRaT that early Naim gear is famed for. There is certainly better placement of the musicians within the sound stage. As for the 220s giving a wider sound stage, I wouldn't say that's the case. With the Phoenix the sound stage seems to extend beyond the width of the speakers & has better depth.

If you're anywhere near the West Midlands, you are very welcome to come for a listen

Thanks for the reply. I ended up putting in an order for the Phoenixes so I'll be able to hear for myself when I get them. It will be a while yet though, they are waiting for on parts so they can build a new set of boards. Small company and their easter sale did well I think. But looking forward to getting them along with some Phantom cables.

I am a DIYER and will audition against the NCC220's which I find are very good, especially if your prepared to update them with the enhancements found in the NCC300 (I am playing around with this at the moment). I am planning two builds here, one using the updated NCC220's and a second using the hopefully very good Phoenix boards.

Here in my installation the NCC220s give me a very wide sound stage extending beyond the speaker width (they disaster quite nicely), lots of detail and taught bass. When the sound mix gets complex however sometimes I feel I can't properly differentiate between the players, maybe, so a comparison with the Phoenixes will be interesting here as this is supposed to be one of their strengths. Lets see anyways

I would love to take you up on your offer of an audition thank you but I'm in Melbourne Australia at the moment. I am planning a trip back to the UK later this year so you never know

Cheers
 
Here in my installation the NCC220s give me a very wide sound stage extending beyond the speaker width (they disaster quite nicely), lots of detail and taught bass. When the sound mix gets complex however sometimes I feel I can't properly differentiate between the players, maybe, so a comparison with the Phoenixes will be interesting here as this is supposed to be one of their strengths. Lets see anyways

I hope that's an autocorrect & they don't disaster at all

I would love to take you up on your offer of an audition thank you but I'm in Melbourne Australia at the moment. I am planning a trip back to the UK later this year so you never know

If you do come over, message me - it would be great to catch up & share experiences
 
I just checked and the BUV21G transistor used on the Phoenix boards are darlington transistors, so another variation compared to the Avondales. I noticed recently that Rega use darlingtons in their amplifiers.
 
I just checked and the BUV21G transistor used on the Phoenix boards are darlington transistors
The datasheet lies on the front page. They're definitely not darlington transistors. The Vbe curve later in the same sheet is consistent with a single device.
 
Good Morning All,

zFPiyTU.jpg


Front page of data sheet............

Regards

Richard
 
A darlington with a hFE of 20+ o_O

Seemingly every picture is not worth a 1000 words.
 
I got my Phoenix boards a few weeks ago and fitted them into my standard serviced NAP 180 (very easy to do) and I agree with the comments above, better separation, more detail, more shimmer on cymbals, more resonance to piano and most notable is the bass. More of it, deeper, better control, more defined. I didn't really expect it to be that much better for the money. I ordered them in the Easter sale so got the 15% discount. I am very pleased with them and they are not going back. I also ordered the Dragon Newt board for my Hi-Cap but still waiting for that. At least the Phoenix board will have settled in so I can see what difference the Newt board makes on top.

VFM wise I am very pleased, in the world of HiFi this much improvement for £340 is good, the Newt was £148 on top, so again not breaking the bank.

I am running a 102/NAPSC/Hi-Cap/180 (all serviced last year) into Neat Iota Alphas, not super hi end but I am more than happy with it using either my Innuos Zen Mini Mk3, Naim CD5/APX4 and my LP12.

The 2003 Avondale APX4 power supply, gives a different sound to the system when tried on the NAC 102 against the Hi Cap, not necessarily better, so be good to compare this against the WH Dragon Newt board.
 


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