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Audiophiles v sound engineers

Domestic speakers can be rolled off at both ends, tilted up at both ends, either, neither both they may have ‘presence’ dips anything goes, anything to sound ‘different’ I guess.
Keith
 
Keith has beat me too it. But mastering speakers have a different balance to home speakers which tend to be rolled of at the top end. This results in speakers which tend to sound harsher than many Hi Fi users would welcome.
 
Although many domestic designs have a rising treble, even manufacturers who have access to anechoic chambers deign to design something other than flat.
Keith
 
moo-fi said:
Pro audio and home audio are very different beasts. The speakers used in monitoring and mastering don't have to sound nice, just consistent.
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Though it is only comparatively recently that there has been a pronounced ‘split’ between the two markets. From the early days of the 40s and 50s through to the 80s studios used high-end hi-fi (Tannoy, JBL, Altec, BBC etc) and you’d often find exactly the same full-range monitors in good home stereos even if a slight change in cabinet.

Certainly there has been a move to active in studios these days, but much of that is cost driven plus they take up far less space in a usually packed environment. There is of course the NS10 too, but really that is a constant/ubiquitous as it was cheap and sounds the same everywhere.

Folk really do need to understand the studio market barely exists these days. Outside of classical and a handful of real big-ticket studios most of the market is for bedroom DJs and singer songwriters recording on a Macbook. Most of the real studios are sadly long gone. This is reflected in the comparative lack of choice, especially when it comes to proper large monitors.
 
I know one or two people who used Yamaha NS10s on their home Hi Fi, as at the time the Yamahas were
being ‘promoted’ a fair bit.
They didn’t last long with one owner.
I recall sound engineers putting tissue paper over the tweeters.
They are still available from Studiospares I believe, under the Studiospares name.
 
moo-fi said:
Pro audio and home audio are very different beasts. The speakers used in monitoring and mastering don't have to sound nice, just consistent. But don't go thinking that the pro world is necessarily better, it is more of a case of different priorities and a key one of those is reliability. In some ways we have our hands tied by client expectations and demands.
Where the Pro world seems to be far ahead of Hi F is the uptake of active speakers and DSP, although their are certainly a lot more crossover products than used to be the case.
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I don't understand that view about monitors. They don't sound of anything other than what goes in. That's what I look out for anyway. There is always a tinny shit speaker on the desk to make sure things project ok on shit music players. But the main monitors are neither nice nor not nice. That is the goal, surely?

Loads of people used to go on about the Yamaha NS10 monitors being challenging to the ear and therefore they are good because they are hard to work with, if you can get them to sound good then you have a good mix. Don't get that at all. Interestingly, I never got the chance to find out. Noone I worked with liked them!
 
Audiophile comprises such a large and diverse group of people with all sorts of ideas and approaches as to what constitutes good sound that an audiophile v whatever comparison is a going to be difficult one. Not that the pro audio world is monolithic, but it’s not nearly as diverse.

Vintage kit (which could be found in homes and in studios in its day) has turned out to be my path toward nirvana, but whatever works for ya is fine by me.

Joe
 
Purité Audio said:
Domestic speakers can be rolled off at both ends, tilted up at both ends, either, neither both they may have ‘presence’ dips anything goes, anything to sound ‘different’ I guess.
Click to expand...

Ahem... Your last REW plot wasn't even within +/- 15db even after a lot of smoothing! That's with a £20k active speaker with all manner of onboard digital shenanigans too!
 
Tony L said:
Though it is only comparatively recently that there has been a pronounced ‘split’ between the two markets. From the early days of the 40s and 50s through to the 80s studios used high-end hi-fi (Tannoy, JBL, Altec, BBC etc) and you’d often find exactly the same full-range monitors in good home stereos even if a slight change in cabinet.

Certainly there has been a move to active in studios these days, but much of that is cost driven plus they take up far less space in a usually packed environment. There is of course the NS10 too, but really that is a constant/ubiquitous as it was cheap and sounds the same everywhere.

Folk really do need to understand the studio market barely exists these days. Outside of classical and a handful of real big-ticket studios most of the market is for bedroom DJs and singer songwriters recording on a Macbook. Most of the real studios are sadly long gone. This is reflected in the comparative lack of choice, especially when it comes to proper large monitors.
Click to expand...
Check out Adam, still got a nice range of beasts. The holy grail for me. I have a £700 pair but I want the 10 grand pair. One day....
 
Tony raises some good points, but perhaps I can take it a little deeper.
The recording process is split in to three parts; tracking, mixing and mastering and each requires a different approach and kit. Although in big studio's this is often a one stop shop, and I belive there are around 50 Studio's in the UK currently operating (I only deal with a few).
The typical shot of a studio you see is the control room where the tracking and mixing is carried (I am generalising here) and several different speaker types are used including the rather awful sound cubes. Remember, it has to sound good both on a typical radio and in the car. Yes there may be some decent main monitors in the room, but most the work is near field.
The big monitors and serious stuff is used in mastering, and this is where you will find the big ATC, PMC and the like.

As for crossover between home and studio, there has always been some, but you don't find may Urei's or Jbl 4435's in the home due to size constraints.
 
I have a friend of mine plays drums in a stage band. Someone gave him a 200 lp collection as he wanted to get rid of it. He bought an old wooden turntable (I think it’s a Thorens), he connected it to his music console to feed his Marshal stage monitor speakers and he is laughing at me with my hi end amplifiers, fussy cables and speakers with ultra soft fabric tweeters telling me his kit sounds more ‘live’ than mine.......

I also have another friend couple that are ‘studio’ musicians that brought some powered Yamaha white woofer monitors at home and the sound was horrible to my fragile ears, probably given the fact their living room is nothing near to an anechoic room........

I would be tempted to try some good passive ATC or Dynaudio 3 way monitors one of these days nevertheless......o_O
 
richgilb said:
Check out Adam, still got a nice range of beasts. The holy grail for me. I have a £700 pair but I want the 10 grand pair. One day....
Click to expand...

If I ever went back to active monitors I'd almost certainly end up with a bigger pair of MEGs (I had a pair of RL904s). The 901 appeals as its got a proper sized bass unit and does both the cardioid bass and point-source thing, plus will have that beautiful 'classical friendly' balance MEGs all have and will no doubt work well at lowish levels (one of my problems with a lot of pro-audio is it is designed for a higher listening level than I want).
 
Tony L said:
Ahem... Your last REW plot wasn't even within +/- 15db even after a lot of smoothing! That's with a £20k active speaker with all manner of onboard digital shenanigans too!
Click to expand...
From Mitchco’s review of the Kii THREE

Quote,
That’s an excellent “in-room” frequency response using no external eq or DSP. The “ups and down” are the standing waves or room modes of my room. I have unfavorable room ratioswhere the only room ratio worse is a cube shaped room.

Only anechoic measurement are really flat.
Keith
 
Tony L said:
If I ever went back to active monitors I'd almost certainly end up with a bigger pair of MEGs (I had a pair of RL904s). The 901 appeals as its got a proper sized bass unit and does both the cardioid bass and point-source thing, plus will have that beautiful 'classical friendly' balance MEGs all have and will no doubt work well at lowish levels (one of my problems with a lot of pro-audio is it is designed for a higher listening level than I want).
Click to expand...
I don't know them at all, pricey?

Active monitors are nirvana for me. Like the apple philosophy, all inclusive and it just works better than mix and match. Particularly if you don't really know what you are doing, like me
 
moo-fi said:
Tony raises some good points, but perhaps I can take it a little deeper.
The recording process is split in to three parts; tracking, mixing and mastering and each requires a different approach and kit. Although in big studio's this is often a one stop shop, and I belive there are around 50 Studio's in the UK currently operating (I only deal with a few).
The typical shot of a studio you see is the control room where the tracking and mixing is carried (I am generalising here) and several different speaker types are used including the rather awful sound cubes. Remember, it has to sound good both on a typical radio and in the car. Yes there may be some decent main monitors in the room, but most the work is near field.
The big monitors and serious stuff is used in mastering, and this is where you will find the big ATC, PMC and the like.

As for crossover between home and studio, there has always been some, but you don't find may Urei's or Jbl 4435's in the home due to size constraints.
Click to expand...
Only 50? Do the £250 a day studios get counted in that 50?

I reckon I could get close to naming 50.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but ‘main’ studio monitors tend to be run at levels that would be antisocial in many domestic settings, don’t they?

And, would studios use the same monitors to master a symphony as, say, a solo girl & guitar or a jazz trio?
 
Only if the engineers welcome premature deafness, I hear the usual 85dB levels that allow long working hours without hearing damage.
Although I believe, perhaps Moo-Fi can verify that volume is often turned up to impress clients.
Keith
 
The 50 I quoted are the ones used by the majors, but yes there has been a substantial rise in small studio's alongside numerous bedroom studios which have produced major hits.
 
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