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Audiophile snobbery...?

Discussion in 'audio' started by Del monaco, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. narabdela

    narabdela who?

  2. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    'Scuse the stating the obvious.. maybe.. but back in the day the industry was probably 10x+ bigger and more profitable than it is now and there were no on line review sites, hi fi forums etc etc... The magazine was king when it came to influencing purchase and the manufacturers were in thrall to them. Mags could therefore give reviews slating poor gear without the slightest risk of losing advertising revenue. Today they are a poor relation to on line advertising and reviews and if a big company who regularly pays for a full page glossy ad pulls its advertising that could be the end for the mag.
  3. Mike P

    Mike P pfm Member

    There's no doubt that the big mainstream brands usually offer the best value for money. I guess you can't escape the economies of scale.

    Thinking more specifically, I'm going to keep to the subject of CD players since that's where I've had most experience....

    What REALLY bugs me is the dishonesty of some of the premium exotic brands! When I look inside a more exotic CD player what I quite often find is a cheap mech and main board taken from a low/mid range big commercial branded player which has then simply been plonked into a fancy alloy case and the price massively inflated.

    In terms of build quality the vintage top end machines from Sony, Denon, Marantz, Philips, Pioneer etc are the pinnacle and way ahead of most/all modern expensive machines.
    Jonboi, JensenHealey and Heckyman like this.
  4. gustav_errata

    gustav_errata pfm Member

    Yep, I read that next. The measurements in particular are interesting. Unfortunately, I didn't notice that the shop with the keen price actually marked them as "sold out". Not that I'm really in the market anyway...
  5. SteveG

    SteveG pfm Member

    I read one of the mags recently and there was a CD player for a pretty substantial amount of cash (£15K) and it's a bit of a struggle to see where the money went in that as it does appear to be based around a re-cased commercial DVD player (and the chipsets mentioned in the review didn't sound anything special - in fact there was mention of one of those being a "legacy" one as it dated to 2002). They had changed it to use their own control software although reading between the lines of the review it sound like that was in fact not great. Despite the review saying that there was a surprising amount of jitter (and indicating that was due to some build issues) it still got an 85/100 review. They did however note that it sounded good but was very expensive.
  6. Paul Mc

    Paul Mc pfm Member

    I think the vinyl-is-king snobs are the worst.
    seethroughyou, booja30 and narabdela like this.
  7. fegs

    fegs pfm Member

    Agreed, they're some of the worst, it's my preferred format but each to their own, whatever works for you is king
  8. pocketkitchen

    pocketkitchen Registered User

    I remember well organising a listening test for a brand I used to work for and compiled 7 or 8 different players to compare to the one we were developing. These players included a cheapish Rotel player up against some pretty expensive boutique brands that were highly regarded by our dealer network. I wasn't allowed any input as the potentially biased organiser and when we reviewed everyone's notes, every single person picked the Rotel as the best. The engineer who'd designed our then prototype model, whipped the kids of them all and informed us that the Rotel had the "most expensive bits in it"! Economies of scale, indeed.
    Mickdale likes this.
  9. Del monaco

    Del monaco Del Monaco

    I have a Rotel 965BX. Great player still after all these years.
  10. Rana

    Rana pfm Member

    Big love for Yamaha products here. I don't own any Yammy stuff at the moment but if I had to reduce to one affordable hifi system it would be based around an 803D receiver - from time to time they dip below £500 in Peter Tyson.
    Del monaco likes this.
  11. Robert Sinden

    Robert Sinden Trade: Gecko Home Cinema

    On the subject of reviews, Floyd Tooles research showed they are meaningless.

    This video distills much of his life’s work https://www.speakerssceincevmeasurments and is the most useful information I know of about speakers and in room performance.
    Jonboi and mega lord like this.
  12. Del monaco

    Del monaco Del Monaco

    Nice that you share my enthusiasm.
  13. RJohan

    RJohan pfm Member

    According to some old geezers here in Sweden, Yamaha starting making HiFi was in the early '70's when Sonab wanted to have electronics made in Japan. Sonab even sent over a bunch of Swedish engineers to cooperate. The result was a reciever called R7000 and a Sonab turntable. The R7000 is supposed to have had a very good tuner section which should have been the start of the CT 7000 (don't have to be true). Other Sonab gear was made by Cambridge and Nakamichi. Anyway, the CT 7000 was hardly mass market.

    In the mid 1970's the Swedish Radio choose Yamaha NS 1000M as standard monitor and bought several hundreds. There are still people in the Swedish HiFi community that's upset over this...
  14. notevenclose

    notevenclose pfm Member

    According to an old geezer here in Scotland, the R7000 had a decent amp section as well. Scandinavian brands were quite popular at the time, despite being generally more expensive than Japanese imports.

    First dealer I worked for had both Sonab and Scan Dyna, although the latter wasn't great on reliability and was dropped from the product portfolio. I then moved to a dealer selling Tandberg, which wiped the floor with most of the other kit we sold. I personally replaced a series of Yamaha amps, latterly a CA1010, with a Tandberg TR2075II, which was a glorious thing.

    Tuners from Japanese manufacturers were typically better at weak signals, but sound quality from the 2075 was better than top-end Pioneer, Sansui or Luxman which we had to hand. Couple of 'live' broadcasts I remember on the 2075 were absolutely stunning, still the best I ever heard from FM.

    A great pity that hardly any of the 'old time' Scandinavian electronics brands are no longer, or if they do exist, are not manufacturing in their homeland. Copland(?) might be one exception, struggling to think of any others. The speaker/drive unit manufacturers have perhaps fared a little better I think.
  15. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    Copland at one time did have their products (CTA 301, 401, etc) manufactured by Xena in Sweden, the later CTA 305 was manufactured in China, I'm not sure where the current range is manufactured.
  16. notevenclose

    notevenclose pfm Member

    Yeah, I thought they'd crossed to the dark side as well, but some recent product pics I've got here suggest Scandinavian manufacture — 'proclaiming 'Made in Denmark,' generally preferable to 'Designed in Denmark, knocked out for peanuts wherever we get the best deal.' Maybe it's not the case for the whole range though.
  17. seethroughyou

    seethroughyou pfm Member

    Dare mention B&O and within seconds the audiophile snobs emerge with their ole prejudices and putdowns. Before I discovered B&O, I had/auditioned all sorts of British and Japanese gear. Some of it was good, some of it poor. I’m not saying everything by B&O has been great. Products from Jacob Jensen and David Lewis era are nearly all beautiful, timeless and engineered impeccably 30-40 years in operation. Their active speakers just get better and better and the BL50 and BL90s are at the top of the pack.
    Jonboi, booja30, chartz and 1 other person like this.
  18. Del monaco

    Del monaco Del Monaco

    I have a Beovision TV. Still a lovely picture enhanced by its built in sound bar.
  19. camverton

    camverton pfm Member

    B&O, beautiful looking. I’m curious about the comment that The BL50 and BL90 are at the top of the pack. Which pack?I can’t speak for the 90 as I couldn’t find a dealer west of London to demonstrate them. I did hear the BL50 in my 2019 speaker hunt, and to be fair it was quite impressive, especially in the looks department. In terms of sound it fell a bit behind D&D and Kii, further behind ATC SCM40, even further behind Quad 2812 at £20k cheaper (need to add amp though), and nowhere near the MBL116F at about the same price.

    I would have loved to have bought the B&O for the looks but I couldn’t tolerate the sound on classical, although they did sound better on jazz and probably would have been good for rock. Perhaps I shouldn’t be a classical music snob! ;):D
  20. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    I use a Tandberg TR-2055 in my second system in the workshop and a superb bit of kit it is! I'd take this range of Tandberg receivers over any of the top Japanese ones all day long!

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