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Audiophile snobbery...?

In truth the great majority of Japanese products which I think are/were of the best in class and would spend my hard-earned on are very much built in the artisan fashion, eg. Kondo, Leben, etc.

Same with arms and cartridges. I have huge respect for the Japanese audiophile community and mindset, I think I’m actually far more aligned with it than the UK market. This obviously encompassing vintage audio as the Japanese were the first to really start valuing vintage idlers, Leak & Quad amps, Tannoys, LS3/5As etc, which is where I reside these days. If I didn’t already have a lovingly restored Leak Stereo 20 I’d almost certainly have a Leben. I love Japanese vinyl pressings too, especially jazz, they just get it right.
 
I buy on-line as I find service and after sales just as good, if not better than many shops I've been to.

I still occasionally buy direct from hi-fi shops but in a small city like Edinburgh it's difficult to find a dealer that has the stuff you're interested in (never mind having it available to demo) so more often I'm buying online (although often still from dealers). I wonder if that's why so many of us ended up with Linn or Naim stuff i.e. it's as much about it having been available to demo as any other factor.
 
I buy on-line as I find service and after sales just as good, if not better than many shops I've been to.
That’s because you are a rational, logical and practically minded kind of chap who knows his own mind; not one to be swayed by marketing and suchlike. Do you shop around for stuff like energy or car insurance?
 
That’s because you are a rational, logical and practically minded kind of chap who knows his own mind; not one to be swayed by marketing and suchlike. Do you shop around for stuff like energy or car insurance?
Yep. Use on line for years. Occasionally I do step into a hifi shop but the experience has been generally ho hum. I didn't find this in the past and used to enjoy listening and browsing but now that I have had frankly superb after sales service from the likes of B&W, Audioquest and Yamaha the differences are minor. As I said before it is your own interface with the company that makes the difference really. The last straw came when a supposedly reputable shop failed to do a simple fix on my turntable, were dishonest and were put right by the turntable company! Real eye opener and smacked of complacency. Since then I've bought from the likes of Purite and have had no issues and very reasonable and personable service. The days of saying shop at your local hifi shop are fading for me.
 
I still occasionally buy direct from hi-fi shops but in a small city like Edinburgh.

What? Small? It's a veritable metropolis! Try Perth... ;-)

In truth I haven't been in a dealer's with a view to buy for over 15 years. Last time would have been with John Carroll at Loud and Clear in Edinburgh back when they had The Mill.

Since then everything I've had in my system has come from either MAX or Definitive, neither of which I've ever visited, or in the case of the current amp, direct from the manufacturer.
 
What? Small? It's a veritable metropolis! Try Perth... ;-)

In truth I haven't been in a dealer's with a view to buy for over 15 years. Last time would have been with John Carroll at Loud and Clear in Edinburgh back when they had The Mill.

Since then everything I've had in my system has come from either MAX or Definitive, neither of which I've ever visited, or in the case of the current amp, direct from the manufacturer.
Lovely city Edinburgh. Usually go there towards Christmas but not now I'm afraid. Shame.
 
What? Small? It's a veritable metropolis! Try Perth... ;-)

I moved back to Edinburgh a couple of years back after a stint in London so it still feels small (but perfectly formed!) to me!

In truth I haven't been in a dealer's with a view to buy for over 15 years. Last time would have been with John Carroll at Loud and Clear in Edinburgh back when they had The Mill.

My first Naim set-up came from the Music Mill and I still use Loud and Clear in Leith from time to time, as they're very close to my office. I've had quite a few things from them in the past year or so - some of which I demo'd and some I didn't.
 
My first Naim set-up came from the Music Mill and I still use Loud and Clear in Leith from time to time, as they're very close to my office. I've had quite a few things from them in the past year or so - some of which I demo'd and some I didn't.

I know John and Alan (the L&C directors) though not well. Nice guys, I'm sure you won't go far wrong there.

I think a good relationship with a good dealer is definitely worth having — ultimately though I tend to think people get the service they deserve, and IME there are some right arseholes on either side of the till.
 
Full disclosure dept: Over the years I've worked for a number of clients in the audio industry; distributors, retailers and manufacturers, both in the UK and further afield.

MAX and Definitive are both clients, although in both cases I'd shown them the colour of my money first before I saw any of theirs — I guess that's why John and Kevin have both got bigger houses than me, they're not daft. ;-)
 
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I know John and Alan (the L&C directors) though not well. Nice guys, I'm sure you won't go far wrong there.

I've found them to be good. They often have interesting 2nd hand stuff that's a fair price and they're also happy to demo it. I got my Krell integrated from them (at what I thought was an absolute bargain price) plus a couple of Simaudio Moon bits that they shipped over from their Glasgow shop for me. They also do Rega turntables so the Planar 1's my kids use came from there as well.
 
I have no direct experience of current Yamaha hi-fi, but I’d expect it to be excellent beyond a certain price point as Yamaha kit always is. It certainly looks great. They are an astonishing company IMO, one if the most fascinating on the planet as they seem able to compete at the very top level whether you want a concert grand piano, a saxophone, motorbike, synthesiser, guitar or hi-fi. I’d love to know more about the brand and its history as it is just amazing that they can be so good across so many markets. As an example I have a proper USA Gibson Les Paul, a USA Fender Stratocaster, and by far my favourite guitar is a 1978 Yamaha SC1200!

My suspicion is that you have to get beyond a certain level with them to get to the good stuff, e.g. their budget guitars are all made in Malaysia, Taiwan etc, the top end of the range is always Japanese made. I assume it is the same with hi-fi.

I think that Yamaha vehicle division and their music activities are now completely separate companies. However earlier on in the growth of Yamaha their experience of casting piano frames must have helped when it came to manufacturing engines. They are a fascinating set of companies and unlike some mainstream brands, I don’t think I have seen anything with the Yamaha name on it that was shabby. That certainly doesn’t apply to Sony, for example, who have not been afraid to dilute their brand in the past.
 
I think audiophile snobbery will always exist but it is a little uncool these days, and there are quite a few well reputed YouTube reviewers who are successfully fighting against it. I’ve been guilty of it myself in the past, not vocally, but I have simply overlooked products made by mass market manufacturers or that I’ve deemed too cheap to be any good... then I opened my mind and my ears. I still tend to go for locally produced kit, but that has more to do with wanting to support local industry and the pride of ownership that I get from owning locally produced goods than the overall performance on offer.

By the way, your system is one of the few here that I’d love to hear if I were your way on and we weren’t in the middle of a pandemic, I am intrigued by it.
 
I think the rise of digital has completely changed how I view things, you just don’t need to spend the same amount of money on the front end.

A food DAC feeding active speakers gets you a hell of a long way
 
If you don't know how it works, what every component does, don't have the knowledge to analyse the circuit topology etc then you are left "judging" equipment by a word printed on the front panel... oh and sometimes your ears of course but with the "wrong" word on the front panel you may not get that far even!

It is the marketing men's dream to have good "brand identity", "brand snobbery" etc... ie people consider something inherently valuable merely based on what brand it is rather than how good it is... "smugisfied" customers even help do the marketing for the companies as they will swim through vomit to tell you that you are obviously ignorant and kidding yourself if you think your £750 unit is as good as their £2000 unit from a "snob approved" brand.. you obviously "don't get it" that there is a certain Je ne sais quoi that money CAN buy etc...

Electrons don't have time for all that of course!

To me all the Japanese brands are the same. Indistinguishable by and large. There is an instantly recognisable look to the innards of Japanese equipment, a commonality of build techniques, parts, etc etc (especially in the cheaper and mid range gear). At one time it was the same for various other brands. One could say that circuit board is from a Philips or a Thorn product at a glance from across the room!
 
If you don't know how it works, what every component does, don't have the knowledge to analyse the circuit topology etc then you are left "judging" equipment by a word printed on the front panel... oh and sometimes your ears of course but with the "wrong" word on the front panel you may not get that far even!

It is the marketing men's dream to have good "brand identity", "brand snobbery" etc... ie people consider something inherently valuable merely based on what brand it is rather than how good it is... "smugisfied" customers even help do the marketing for the companies as they will swim through vomit to tell you that you are obviously ignorant and kidding yourself if you think your £750 unit is as good as their £2000 unit from a "snob approved" brand.. you obviously "don't get it" that there is a certain Je ne sais quoi that money CAN buy etc...

Electrons don't have time for all that of course!

To me all the Japanese brands are the same. Indistinguishable by and large. There is an instantly recognisable look to the innards of Japanese equipment, a commonality of build techniques, parts, etc etc (especially in the cheaper and mid range gear). At one time it was the same for various other brands. One could say that circuit board is from a Philips or a Thorn product at a glance from across the room!
Always interesting listening to an engineer's point of view and also reassuring.
 
People buy what they like and can afford I dont see any snobbery in that. As for the Yamaha's, Denon's, Marantz of this world all make great sounding gear. Personally I go for sound first looks do play a big part. Dealers play a big part also , I never knew anything of my system before walking into the dealer. He recommend the Yamaha AS-3000 fantastic sound but it was far too large otherwise I would have bought it. Next up was the Pathos Inpol Remix. It sounded great and would fit in with my living environment. My mate runs an old secondhand Sony amp with a RP1 and old Tannoy speakers. It has never crossed my mind he has a crap system. I go round to his we have a dram and play music , we do the same at mine very enjoyable nights I look forward to. We both end up buying albums we were unfamiliar with from our collections. That's what it's all about.
 
I like the look of that M-5000 power amp. Anything with meters that big has to be good, no?

I made my first Yamaha purchase for 40 years yesterday, admittedly a little £200 streamer. I had the old CA-610 and matching tuner back then. Like the OP, I always lusted after a CT-7000. I love the looks of their kit, but they lost their way in the 80s/90s. I have no doubt those speakers are the business - it seems to be very difficult to get them demonstrated though.

£5k for a decent turntable? How bad can it be? There seems to be some interesting ideas in there, hidden by the marketing-speak. But it seems a bit off that the cover is not thrown in for free, but there we are.

But anything called Gigantic & Tremendous is fine with me
 
I like the look of that M-5000 power amp. Anything with meters that big has to be good, no?

Oddly enough that's one of the things that put me off amplifiers. Not enough that I wouldn't buy one if it sounded good enough though.
 


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