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Audiophile Network Switches for Streaming ... really ?

Funk said:

No doubt many here will say it's bullshit because what would LTT know about high-end audio...
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LTT isn’t an audio guy that is for sure. Remember though he did a video some time ago where he demoed some very high end headphones and amp setup.
Actually the ones in this video.
His premise going in was that the price asked couldn’t possibly be justified.
His reactions through the review session are quite interesting.
 
robs said:
We can tell.;)

Was just meant to raise a smile.
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It worked
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DonMarks said:
LTT isn’t an audio guy that is for sure. Remember though he did a video some time ago where he demoed some very high end headphones and amp setup.
Actually the ones in this video.
His premise going in was that the price asked couldn’t possibly be justified.
His reactions through the review session are quite interesting.
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You have to laugh at the little shiny stickers in there though, I bet they will argue it makes a difference and I bet some muppet believes them.
 
It’s disappointing to see some folk questioning the very idea of using a network switch - any network switch not just a “special” one - for audiophile purposes - on the basis of what can and can’t be happening to the 1s and 0s. It’s absolutely nothing to do with 1s and 0s, and is all about reducing analogue noise hitting the streamer; the switch can only do this if installed just before the streamer; sticking one at the other end, close to router, will have less if any audible impact.

This application of a switch simply takes a side effect of the way ethernet boards are designed - galvanic isolation - and makes it the main deal. This side effect massively reduces the noise accumulated up to that point, including along the typically several metres long cable from router to streamer (now router to switch).

I tried a £20 switch (Zyxel GS108B) earlier this year just to prove to myself that the very concept was flawed. I was very pleasantly surprised when it was anything but, and this makes no claims to be audiophile in quality…

No digital information is changed in this process. Anyone claiming it is should expect to be challenged, and anyone claiming that this is precisely the reason switches can’t do anything for sound quality is completely missing the point. With respect!
 
TheFlash said:
the switch can only do this if installed just before the streamer; sticking one at the other end, close to router, will have less if any audible impact.
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I don't really understand what you mean here. Do you not connect all your devices to your ethernet switch?
 
Funk said:

No doubt many here will say it's bullshit because what would LTT know about high-end audio...
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It’s pretty hilarious actually (crystal oscillator bit is fab!), though their “comparative test” completely misses the point because there is zero mention of where either switch is physically placed: if neither is just before the streamer, neither is likely to make much if any difference at all, even vs no switch at all…

Having said that, the comparison suggests that the two switches appear to be fundamentally identical so should sound identical… if they “sound” at all.
 
paulfromcamden said:
I don't really understand what you mean here. Do you not connect all your devices to your ethernet switch?
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No! Well not if you want it to make a sonic difference. Most other devices tend to be nearer to the router than to a hifi system.

Let’s make this real: how far is your router from your streamer?
 
A switch, audiophile or not, with non-audio devices attached and installed at the router end is going to make little or no sonic difference. How could it? It’s just taking bits in and putting identical bits out, doing its digital duty as it was designed to.
 
Anyone claiming that a network switch can alter the analogue result of its (dumb) digital throughput has no idea how a network works. As for 'reducing noise' to the port of the audio device....well all I'll say is that if your playback device is so susceptible to any such 'noise' that its sonic output is affected then it's fundamentally shit, badly designed and should be put in the nearest bin.

Think for a moment. Your streamed music data has come through a torturous journey (sometimes across continents, certainly cross-country) via all manner of switches, cables and servers - sticking an €800 switch in front of your streamer will make literally zero difference to the sound that reaches your ears.

It's worrying how easily manufacturers can persuade audiophiles that the 'old rules' still apply in the modern digital world and successfully extract ridiculous sums of money out of them. It's worth remembering that our ears are NOT reliable audio measuring devices and the brain is easily-fooled.
 
Funk said:
Anyone claiming that a network switch can alter the analogue result of its (dumb) digital throughput has no idea how a network works. As for 'reducing noise' to the port of the audio device....well all I'll say is that if your playback device is so susceptible to any such 'noise' that its sonic output is affected then it's fundamentally shit, badly designed and should be put in the nearest bin.

Think for a moment. Your streamed music data has come through a torturous journey (sometimes across continents, certainly cross-country) via all manner of switches, cables and servers - sticking an €800 switch in front of your streamer will make literally zero difference to the sound that reaches your ears.

It's worrying how easily manufacturers can persuade audiophiles that the 'old rules' still apply in the modern digital world and successfully extract ridiculous sums of money out of them. It's worth remembering that our ears are NOT reliable audio measuring devices and the brain is easily-fooled.
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COMPLETELY misses the point. Everything you say about how the data gets to your router is right. That’s all entirely in the digital domain, and bits is bits.

Try a £20 switch just before your streamer. It might fool your unreliable ears! Seriously, this is what I tried earlier this year and then tried to work out how and why. It’s a classic hypothesis-and-test approach.
 
TheFlash said:
No! Well not if you want it to make a sonic difference. Most other devices tend to be nearer to the router than to a hifi system.

Let’s make this real: how far is your router from your streamer?
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I'm still not really following I'm afraid.

I have a small Netgear switch that my router and streamer are connected to. Along with a handful of other devices.

There's no 'end', they're all just devices connected to a switch backplane in a flat network.
 
paulfromcamden said:
I'm still not really following I'm afraid.

I have a small Netgear switch that my router and streamer are connected to. Along with a handful of other devices.

There's no 'end', they're all just devices connected to a switch backplane in a flat network.
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How far is your router from your streamer? It’s basic info which will allow me to try to explain.
 
not versed in the why and why nots re switches, but i can say that an ee8 made a positive difference, plus my router ports are full of the TV side of things so the extra capacity is needed. Yes i did try it vs a netgear GS105 and would have kept the netgear if the difference was not audible, but it is to me.
 
paulfromcamden said:
You mean physically? About a metre.
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Thanks. In that case any switch is likely to make little or no audible difference. I had 8m of ethernet cable from router to streamer and now have 7m router to switch and 1m switch to streamer. It makes a difference.

If you were a curious critter you might try a separate switch with just your router and streamer attached and no other devices so the noise from those doesn’t get to your “dedicated audio” switch.
 
hifi-dog said:
not versed in the why and why nots re switches, but i can say that an ee8 made a positive difference, plus my router ports are full of the TV side of things so the extra capacity is needed. Yes i did try it vs a netgear GS105 and would have kept the netgear if the difference was not audible, but it is to me.
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How long are cables from router to EE8 and from EE8 to streamer please? And what is attached to EE8 besides router and streamer?
 
TheFlash said:
Thanks. In that case any switch is likely to make little or no audible difference. I had 8m of ethernet cable from router to streamer and now have 7m router to switch and 1m switch to streamer. It makes a difference.

If you were a curious critter you might try a separate switch with just your router and streamer attached and no other devices so the noise from those doesn’t get to your “dedicated audio” switch.
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So your suggestion is that shorter ethernet cables 'sound' better?
 
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