At last... (Audiolab) - part VII

[Steven Toy]

My amps are not a good match for Harbs, that's what's wrong with 'em!

This would be a more suitable partnering amp for Harbs:

http://www.densen.dk/index.php?page=products&produkt=b330

fronted by a CDQ or MDAC of course.

 

[Basil]

LoL, the Harbs don't need anywhere near that kind of power...

From the Harbeth FAQ:

5. How much power do I need to drive Harbeth speakers?
Far less than you might think! This is really two questions . . . a) how much power do I need to generate the loudness I want and b) how easy a load are the speakers. Agree?

a) We all know that it's nice to have a big engine so that we can occasionally 'put our foot down' but what is the real relevance of all that power for normal town motoring? We have a social responsibility to our neighbours (and to our own ears) and I've always found that 100W per channel or so has provided a really loud sound on those rare occasions when the neighbours are out and the mood takes me! But for normal use - 20 or 30W in a small room really can be loud.

b) When we are designing the crossover network we're acutely conscious that many of our users are far from the factory, do not speak English and have a wide choice of amplifiers none of which we will be able to test. So we've always been sure to design Harbeths so that they have an easy, benign electrical load and will work with just about any credible mainstream amplifier in the world.

 

[Steven Toy]

The Densen is just a good amp. The first 30 Watts are in Class A. The 750 VA transformer is also more pertinent than out-and-out wpc as is the fact that the amp will double its power as the impedance of the speakers halves thus ironing out the impedance/frequency quirks of the Harbs.

I would recommend a s/h one of these amps. The caps are good for 20 years according to Densen.

Someone else was asking after a suitable partnering amp for their CDQ or MDAC. ^ Nice visual match too.

 

[arthur]

The Densen is just a good amp. The first 30 Watts are in Class A. The 750 VA transformer is also more pertinent than out-and-out wpc as is the fact that the amp will double its power as the impedance of the speakers halves thus ironing out the impedance/frequency quirks of the Harbs.

I would recommend a s/h one of these amps. The caps are good for 20 years according to Densen.

Someone else was asking after a suitable partnering amp for their CDQ or MDAC. ^ Nice visual match too.

Yup, that was going to be my buy before the AVI and then back to Adams again.

 

[Basil]

The Densen is just a good amp. The first 30 Watts are in Class A. The 750 VA transformer is also more pertinent than out-and-out wpc as is the fact that the amp will double its power as the impedance of the speakers halves thus ironing out the impedance/frequency quirks of the Harbs.

I would recommend a s/h one of these amps. The caps are good for 20 years according to Densen.

Someone else was asking after a suitable partnering amp for their CDQ or MDAC. ^ Nice visual match too.

Hmmmm, which bit of:

b) When we are designing the crossover network we're acutely conscious that many of our users are far from the factory, do not speak English and have a wide choice of amplifiers none of which we will be able to test. So we've always been sure to design Harbeths so that they have an easy, benign electrical load and will work with just about any credible mainstream amplifier in the world.

Didn't you get?

I'm presently running them from a cheap Marantz integrated while the Arcam pre is away at Arcam for a warrantee fix. Apart from the really crap volume control, it's very 'naim-like' as in all or nothing and a bit 'hair-trigger' on the remote, and the lack of line-level inputs, it's fine.

But I don't expect you to believe that.

 

[Steven Toy]

Quote: b) When we are designing the crossover network we're acutely conscious that many of our users are far from the factory, do not speak English and have a wide choice of amplifiers none of which we will be able to test. So we've always been sure to design Harbeths so that they have an easy, benign electrical load and will work with just about any credible mainstream amplifier in the world.

Didn't you get?

I don't want to get all objectivist on yo ass and Harbs are nice and all that but in addition to reading the manufacturer's blurb it might be an idea to check the impedance/frequency curve. The French would describe it as valloné.

Tony had the dilemma of choosing between Harbs, as I recall or glowing bottles for this reason. He chose the latter and became a Tannoyista like yours truly here.

 

[Joe Hutch]

Tony had the dilemma of choosing between Harbs, as I recall or glowing bottles for this reason. He chose the latter and became a Tannoyista like yours truly here.

He was a Tannoyista long before you, IIRC.

I have Harbs and valves, but in different systems.

 

[TimR]

Gosh, for "Box Speakers" they are really good, I'd buy a pair if I could find them... I'd given you much more...

You should "home Demo" a pair of the Martin Logan's I recommended,

John

I almost don't want to hear what I'm missing... I don't think the wallet could take it!

Also, having now sold my soul and gone multichannel, I have the unfortunate affliction of being restricted to speakers that come in 5's and not 2's

In fairness, the Dynaudio's are actually very good. In fact I've just had a couple or three hours of listening and, lost in the moment, I couldn't help thinking "it just doesn't get any better than this". That CDQ of yours is a bloody impressive machine John, regardless of all this MDAC talk. I'm genuinely slightly worried how the MDAC is going to improve upon what I've just been listening to

By the way, my brother had a bit of a windfall recently and has just bought himself a 8200CD. Actually, I was a bit worried that it might be overkill in the context of his budget system, but I couldnt have been more wrong - the improvement was dramatic. I really did not expect it to lift the whole system in the way that it has done. I think he's now regretting placing that order for a new amp!

edit: OK, so maybe I'm not that worried about the MDAC ;-)

 

[JemHayward]

You should "home Demo" a pair of the Martin Logan's I recommended,
John

I'd suggest you approach this exercise with extreme care... We listened to Martin Logans as a possible alternative to our much loved ESL57s which were just a bit too wide for the room. The £4k ones were a revelation, but the £8k Summits were more than twice as good. So we spent a miserable year saving up, and have spent the next two upgrading the rest of the system to get the best from them, the MDAC will hopefully be the last piece of the jigsaw. LinnDS MDAC EAR890 and ML Summits.

 

[Steven Toy]

. I have Harbs and valves, but in different systems.

That is how I would have it.

 

[PhilCTTE]

LinnDS MDAC EAR890 and ML Summits.

Jeese nice gear !

So hotly anticipating the postie knocking the door with a brand spankin MDAC any day now. In regards to cables can you draw the same conclusion as with HDMI cables when selecting a USB cable, in the fact that it only needs to be of solid construction. Not needing to spend huge amounts with a spec of 28AWGX2C USB 2.0 is this a fact or do I need to look into this further. btw usb 2.0 is all my usb isolator will handle. Cheers

 

[JohnW]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the words of encouragement - I'm glad the CD worked out for your Brother

I'd be really interested in how the MDAC's going to workout for you in your system.

I discussed the SBT Clock Locking with Dominik and we bounced some ideas around – Dominik (Damn ) came up with a great suggestion that we are going to build upon - I need to get to my Lab in China to test some circuit ideas - but we are confident we have a great solution that will allow the SBT to operate with or without the Clock-Lock link, while at the same time improving the SBT's SPDIF output in standalone mode.

Designing the PCB's going to be fun due to the tight squeeze...

Did you mention you had a second SBT – this would allow you to compare our modified unit and an original?

Don’t forget that Adrian is also going to look into the possibility of getting the Async. USB working once he receives his MDAC.

Once in China, Ill also capture the SBT remote codes, hopefully we can enable the MDAC to respond to the SBT remote control Volume commands, so you will be able to use the SBT RC handset to adjust the MDAC’s volume level (and set the SBT own internal volume to 100% - Fixed).

John

 

[JohnW]

I'd suggest you approach this exercise with extreme care... We listened to Martin Logans as a possible alternative to our much loved ESL57s which were just a bit too wide for the room. The £4k ones were a revelation, but the £8k Summits were more than twice as good. So we spent a miserable year saving up, and have spent the next two upgrading the rest of the system to get the best from them, the MDAC will hopefully be the last piece of the jigsaw. LinnDS MDAC EAR890 and ML Summits.

That's a better system then I have - I believe that the MDAC's is really going to impress you in your system (Gosh I hope the MDAC's going to work when it arrives)....

 

[JohnW]

Jeese nice gear !

So hotly anticipating the postie knocking the door with a brand spankin MDAC any day now. In regards to cables can you draw the same conclusion as with HDMI cables when selecting a USB cable, in the fact that it only needs to be of solid construction. Not needing to spend huge amounts with a spec of 28AWGX2C USB 2.0 is this a fact or do I need to look into this further. btw usb 2.0 is all my usb isolator will handle. Cheers

I'd start off with any old USB cable you have laying around - we just use standard "Printer" type cables in the Lab.

If the USB cable makes any difference than I'll be shaking my head... especially since the MDAC is Async USB and you have the USB isolator!!

You could use the cheapest cable you can find, and then start saving for EAR890 and ML Summits as Jem has....

 

[PhilCTTE]

Thanks for clarification John much appreciated ! I was assuming such, but the marketing blurb on some sites makes you doubt reason. I've spent about £100 on a TAG Mclaren digi coax cable in the past, because I believed in the products. But after reading about the HDMI debacle, I started to doubt just exactly what is the truth in regards to dig cables. Never spent more than £20 on hdmi or optical. Speaker cables mind I've experimented with everything from solid core mains cable (cooker wire) to Nordost Blue heaven, seem to have settled on Atlas hyper2 biwire which has a solid core for bass and thinner multi strand for treble, not cheap mind. All XLR's I've used Mark Grant Cables which are very reasonably priced...blimey seem to have tangled myself up in my own cable debate

** edit something I do find myself doing these days is when a manufacturer try's to sell £100+ usb cables I immediately start to doubt the rest of the products they are trying to promote on their website. Don't they realise that they are alienating potential buyers.

Well just saw a set of ML Summits on another site for £5995 but unless I move house I can't see myself upgrading my B&W's sig 8nt inwalls just yet, not with 2 young boys Although thats roughly in the same ball park as what I paid for my front three.

 

[sergiox]

Hello John , im in late to tell it but , thank you for your answer.

Today is the big day? MDACS will be delivered to their legitimate purchaser? Isn't it?

ciao
s.

 

[Space is the Place]

All this Martin Logan talk makes me think of this image.

Image: Jon Iverson Stereophile

 

[Blurpapa]

Good luck with that - I'd suggest that you not hold your breath...

Hi John.

I am in Singapore as well, and was told by the dealer here to expect pre-order delivery by mid Dec.
However, I can ill afford to gamble with possible disappointment and was wondering if it's possible to have a unit shipped into Singapore via your channel?

Thanks!

John

 

[sq225917]

Having heard the Chord USb cable demo at Manchester I have to say I'm a believer.










Believer that some USB dacs are so poorly designed that they aren't fit for purpose.

 

[PhilCTTE]

Noooo dont say that sq

Did you compare the chord to bog standard usb spec cable, I agree re poor design, not sure if you could visibly check that mind. If the spec rating on the cable performs as then job done surely.

But as I stated I've spent more on dig coax with far more fancy shielding and high spec termination than optical and usb... should we treat them the same. Well pretty sure no. As they have different properties when it comes to bandwidth capabilities and speed.