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At last... (Audiolab) - part I

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Hello everyone. I'm new today to your great forum.:) I have a couple of questions for John.

Hello John W:

I was on another forum when someone there mentioned that you had built an impressive line-up. I got the link, plugged it in and read this thread. And after reading your interaction with this group about your creation and explaining what you have achieved......... I want one of each please. :D I'm in Ontario, Canada and would have to get my unit, when they arrive, in Toronto which is about 3 hours away. I think I want the CDQ, or the MDAC, or the DQ:D just kidding!

1. So, I was wondering if you could talk about the quality control that you are observing in the Chinese plant and the protocol? For instance, I was looking at the Bryston company's quality control description which I've pasted below and was wondering how your plant's units quality control standards match up to their high standards. I ask this because it will not be an easy task when and if let us say a 8200 CDQ goes on the blink to just go downtown to drop it off to be fixed. It will require either sending or driving it back to Toronto, or even worse, sending it back to China. So, this is important to me.

2. Also, can you tell me the warranty that each of your units will come with? With Bryston, I believe it is 20 years. Amazing I know. And with Simaudio, it is 10 years. Also, still amazing. Both are Canadian companies. But I just might have to sacrifice an amazing warranty from companies which are right here in my own back yard, for the amazing sound that these units of yours are expected to achieve.

Thank you John for your help. I look forward to hearing back from you.

Algernon
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At the point of final assembly, many manufactures immediately pack their amplifiers into boxes for shipment. However, at Bryston, there is still much more to do. Each of our fully assembled products is connected to what we call a "burn-in table." For example, during 100 hours of continuous testing, our amplifiers are monitored through a range of input cycles and thermal stress levels to duplicate a broad spectrum of operational loads. If any failures occur, we want to catch them here, before you begin using our product.

Then, and only then, are Bryston products sent to the final quality inspection area for a comprehensive and carefully documented test of all their functions. The printed results of this computer-aided analysis are actually shipped with each unit. During this intensive procedure, we reject any product that falls outside of our advertised specifications, or an even narrower band of specifications that we use for internal testing. As a result, you can expect each Bryston product to perform as least twice as well as the advertised specifications.
 
I think there needs to be a no-fuss consumer box such as the AppleTV (That kind of form factor) maybe with internal storage that backs everything up online, so no need to connect any backup drives etc. Then if the unit goes pop the user gets another one, sticks a username and password in to identify themselves and voila it re-downloads all their music.

It'll only go mass market when it's easy to understand, people want a device/console not a computer - look at the iPad as a template - people warm to it and embrace it rather than looking at it as something they don't understand or want to understand.

Or of course lossless streaming from an online service but the record labels just can't wrap their brains around that one yet.....

You've made a lot of good points here.

It's funny how the record and computer industries are way behind the needs of the audiophile community..

Jack
 
Another Canadian here waiting with baited breath for a CDQ.

Bryston CD players carry a 3 year warranty-it is their amplifiers that are 20. The warranty on the Audiolab is likely 1 year which is standard from most companies who sell in North America.

As far as service concerns in Canada go, I would get in touch with Planet Of Sound who are the distributor for this product--they will be the ones that you will no doubt have to deal with should you require service.

In general, it seems that the way that a given distributor handles these issues has everything to do with how smoothly things go.

I doubt that your unit would go back to China but they can tell you better.
 
Hello Weirdness:

With a name like that you must be a Canadian eh! Where do you hail from?

I recall John saying that the CDQ has about 1700 parts - I hope my memory is serving me right and not betraying me again. If true, with a number like that and giving only a one year warranty, that ratio doesn't seem too reassuring especially given the inconvenience of the distance and shipping that will occur. During that one year warranty, it is doubtful that Planet of Sound would be able to fix it on site but would rather have to ship it back to the Orient. And after the warranty, yikes, I could be looking at a lot of clams if something goes amiss. I will have to judge the sound quality against this type of warranty period and the possible headaches of something going wrong with the unit and all that would ensue because of that. I don't want to sound negative, but rather I am just thinking out loud.

Thanks Weirdness,

Algernon
 
During that one year warranty, it is doubtful that Planet of Sound would be able to fix it on site but would rather have to ship it back to the Orient. And after the warranty, yikes, I could be looking at a lot of clams if something goes amiss.

Algernon

Its difficult to tell wether you are being serious as that just sounds like paranoia. Electronics are edtremely robust these days and any inherent faults become obvious well within the first year, which is covered by the product warranty. In the unlikely event something goes wrong then it is the dealers responsibility to make sure you are taken care of. Now the level of service you receive is very much dependent on the dealer. They may at their discretion provide you a loan unit, ive known others who will replace it for a brand new one. Or it might indeed need to go back to a service centre based usually within the same country of purchase. Very rarely does a product need to go back to the country of origin. Think about it, when was the last time you sent a plasma screen, packed with thousands of components, back to china? As with any other product once the warranty period expires it is solely your responsibility. Again a good dealer will always try and help, most in fact try to sell extended warraties at the point of sale to cover 3 or 5 years. Might be worth it should you feel that way inclined. Keep in mind bryston and others who provide warranty periods longer the usual 1 year will have added the extra cost into the products rrp. They dont give these things away for free!
 
As a result, you can expect each Bryston product to perform as least twice as well as the advertised specifications.
Does this mean their amplifiers are twice as powerful vs their rated spec?

What's a 10 or 20 year warranty worth if the chips are unavailable? What would a good 10 or 20 year warranty cost - it's cost has to be factored into the selling price. Why would I want a 10 or 20 year warranty on a CDP ro DAC? Good as JW's units are they will be bettered by then by units at a fraction of today's price. Also it's unlikely we'll be playing CDs.

And....do you send your German car to Germany to get it fixed?
 
Hello to the above:

Not being paranoid at all. I'm asking from my personal experience which maybe quite different from yours. I also do not believe that a unit like this could be fixed in my own area or country if the diagnosis was more complicated. All I asked of John was for his take and observation of the Q & C in the plant. That is all. If you are comparing a plasma TV to this "new on the market" item, I don't believe that is a fair comparison. I can take a plasma TV to any of my service centers here in town and they will have been schooled in it because it is a well known product with literally millions of them all over the place. Not so with the new Audiolab's CDQ. We are not dealing with a Yamaha or Denon etc., that can also be fixed anywhere. That is why I asked John about the Q & C for this new product. I think my question for him was not even close to the realm of paranoia. Is it not allowed on this forum to query about a new unit that one is considering buying? I see countless questions to John. But I guess none of them are paranoid only mine is considered such when I query about the quality control and warranty of a new item that I've never owned before. Pardon me. My mistake for asking.

If the above respondents to my query have a problem with what I asked, then why trouble yourselves at all responding back to a request that was not made to you to begin with but rather to John. Truly you must have better things to do with your time.

If I ask anything on this forum in the future I'll make sure that I ask sanitized questions that should meet with all of your approval before I submit them so as not to be scrutinized and parsed by individuals to whom the question wasn't even asked.
 
Algernon - just like your TV, this Audiolab will contain approximately 4 replaceable parts:

1) The transformer
2) The power caps
3) The transport
4) The main board

It's a four-layer through-soldered board littered with surface mount components. Repair is not an option. If it breaks, it will be replaced. No need to send to China. Any TV shop will be able to do it.
 
Hey there Lindasbut. No trolling. You must be thinking of your own behavior. And I didn't know that you were omniscient - thinking you know what is or what is not my name. What's yours, Fred, Ralph, Seymour, Alfalfa, or Herbert. Yes, you sound like a Herbert. But I don't want to take away from what your parents proudly named you. You must get a lot of laughs from the cops when they pull you over and ask you for your I.D. and see Lindasbum. Duuuuuuude!!

Hello Dan.Scott1234 and technobear: Thanks for your reasonable responses. Much appreciated.:)

And here comes the big sign off that Lindasbut was waiting for. "Algernon":D
 
Algernon,

Welcome to the thread.

The 8200CD is a new design, so it’s very early days to pass comment on the “Long Term” reliability at this stage.

We have performed full environmental testing etc – and I can honestly say we have not seen any significant issues.

Again, apart from sporadic issues within the field, there’s no “picture” forming of any “Design Reliability issues ATM” – but really I don’t wish to tempt fate!

Don't be concerned about the shear number of components; many are used in parallel such as the PSU capacitors, so adding layers of redundancy.

As with all CD players, my greatest concern would be the CD OPU unit (Laser Head). The OPU is normally the "Life Limited" component within a CD / DVD player.

I would not like to tempt MR or Mrs “Fate” by commenting on the life span of a Laser head - but 3 to 5 years would be considered normal, although you have many that last less, and many that last longer... as I say it would be tempting fate to say anymore.

Luckily, as Laser’s are the most troublesome items, almost any repair shop can replace them. We use a popular Sony unit (KSM313) so they are not hard to source...

As to IAG production QC, again these are new designs, so still early days, but other "OEM" projects I'm involved with, are running at about 0.5% failure rate in the field (although these designs don’t contain a LASER) - so apart from Lasers failures I would expect somewhere between about 0.5 to 3% failure rate as the norm...

I hope I have not just cursed the design....!
 
Can't see what all the fuss is about re warranty etc. Really, if it breaks it'll do it in the first few days/weeks.

Like John just pointed out it's the moving parts that break and was the downfall of my favorite CDP maker - Micromega.

PS, also when your talking about prices, some people spend more on their 3m speaker cables, so if it does go pop after 3-4 years of good use, does it matter! they'll be something new to look forward to by then.
 
I believe poor Micromega's downfall was due in a large part to being heavily tied to Philips - who at one stage manufactured stunning Laser OPU's then came along the CDM12.1 Series....

Every manufacturer who used the later Philips CDM12.x series well have true horror stories to tell...
 
Hello John W.

Thank you very much for responding to my query. Much appreciated.

Can you estimate how long I should have to wait to get the CDQ that has the 12v trigger here in Canada. I believe that is what the component is called. I believe I read somewhere that this option is not in the present CDQ but will be put in along with the up-dated software.

And lastly, can you tell me the warranty period not only on this unit but on the rest of your new line.

Thank you,

Algernon
 
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