Sure, just like every borough has enough money for police to prevent crime, schools for all, etc.
Arthur
- Thread starter hifinutt
- Start date
She's going to get a good deal of it over the next 29 years or so, so she'd better get used to it or learn how to stop it happening.
Ponty
pfm Member
It’ll cost millions over the years to keep them locked up (although fingers crossed they might not last too long inside). I’d rather see the funds spent on cancer treatments etc.
Tony L
Administrator
If you are arguing to give the state the power to commit murder then that never ends well. It can be seen as the point where civilisation ends. A Taliban-grade culture. Life in prison is the correct response.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
£45k/year per prisoner.
Ponty
pfm Member
I’d make an exception for this pair.
Ponty
pfm Member
More than most people earn before tax. Into the millions when you consider the sentences and inflation. I can think of far better uses for the funds.
Tony L
Administrator
I won’t. As soon as you give a state the legal power to murder it is a short jump to killing any marginalised group they choose. See a disproportionate number of black folk in America, LGBT folk in the middle east, political opposition in Russia, China etc. I’d not trust our shower to accurately tell me what day it was let alone give them the power of life and death. Screw that. Jurys are hardly infallible too, look at the endless number of political prisoners (alleged IRA etc) who have later been released because the “evidence” was clearly bent. I’d far prefer to pay a bit more in tax to keep shit like these two alive in jail rather than descend even further into state authoritarianism.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Honestly my first thought on reading what they'd done was that they should be thrown down a well. No one would shed any tears.
But I'm very glad I live in a country without the death penalty. I'm not sure incarceration representing poor value for money is sufficient reason to reintroduce it.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Licence to kill and the British state:
Priti Patel’s plans to give Border Force agents immunity for migrant deaths is part of a sinister wider trend
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/up-front/licence-to-kill-and-the-british-state
Cav
pfm Member
How much would a sentence have to cost, potentially, before you decided that a death sentence was good value and would that apply to murder only or to any long sentence crime?
It’s odd how many of these contrarians never post anything about Hifi… They add to the colour of the forum as long as you see them for what they are IMHO.
linnfomaniac83
I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!
I thought “lessons were learned” in the Baby P case (I studied his case as part of a safeguarding course when I was training as a SEN support teacher, deeply traumatic), well I thought they were until I had a bit of first had experience. What I can say, is I’m not overly surprised things get missed, I personally raised genuine concerns a couple of times over a child’s safety, first time it was looked into, social services had some involvement and things improved… in the second case, there were minimal checks and basically little to no action, and when the child was still coming to school hungry, in dirty, under sized and work out clothing/shoes, and was still shy and withdrawn, and smelling of cannabis, I raised concerns again, and was advised to “not keep making a fuss” because “the relevant authorities are aware and keeping tabs”… so a child was living in an unhealthy and toxic environment, being neglected… but not quite neglected enough to take action against the parents and move the child into a clean, safe, healthy environment… suffice to say, it affected me badly, it’s really not uncommon at all, thousands of children live in similar conditions in the UK, and the care system isn’t equipped to deal with it. Things need to change, because this will keep on happening if they don’t.
kensalriser
pfm Member
I believe it's the case that all the data from the US shows that capital punishment is actually significantly more expensive.
https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/death-penalty/death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost/
linnfomaniac83
I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!
It’s that uncommon for depraved monsters like this to victimise one child, particularly when that child is a stepchild, someone close to me suffered in this way until she was eight years old, at which point she was taken into care… then she was on her own aged 17, put into a flat in crime ridden high rise block. She’s now living in totally different circumstances, in a nice house with her partner and four very much loved children. Some of the stories from her past would make your toes curl though, they’re her stories and I would want to post any details without her express permission, but she does want to write a book on them herself. She still suffers with PTSD.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
In the scheme of Govt. spending..it is peanuts. Please don't be drawn into this simplistic way of thinking.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
It’s this fixation on cost, rather than value. In this case, the value is that of living in a society which has decided it has put the death penalty beyond use.
The U.K. is already greatly damaged and our society and it’s values of decency and fairness are under threat as never before in my lifetime. Let’s not allow malign forces to take us further down a dark path by exploiting the completely understandable public revulsion at this tragedy.
Frizzy
Liberal anarchist
It’s been a decade of slashing budgets and cutting training for child services (I worked for twenty years in housing projects for teenagers leaving care)
You get what you pay for, tories want to dismantle the welfare state and continue the drift to privatisation. It started under Labour, Brown paved way for the charities being given responsibility for caring for the elderly (age concern heavily lobbied for right to cross line between charitable status and commercial interests) parole services collapsed, children’s homes have become pick up joints for local taxi drivers, (this was happening in the eighties) and old persons homes are being bankrupted daily.
People some how believe you can have low taxes and good services,I think the state of social chaos in USA makes a point loudly, everyone wants to have a Rolls Royce servce for mini money. Tories slashed and burned council services over last 11 years and national debt went up!!!!
Also there’s a culture that people are loathe to grass up neighbours or relatives, it’s not seen as positive to have social workers involved in any way in a families life.
More social workers are assaulted each year than either nurses or police; of which vast the majority are not reported as social workers feel beleaguered and unsupported. Kids can destroy careers and drive carers into situations where mental health is at risk.
Social workers, last people you call, first people you blame.
You get what you pay for, tories want to dismantle the welfare state and continue the drift to privatisation. It started under Labour, Brown paved way for the charities being given responsibility for caring for the elderly (age concern heavily lobbied for right to cross line between charitable status and commercial interests) parole services collapsed, children’s homes have become pick up joints for local taxi drivers, (this was happening in the eighties) and old persons homes are being bankrupted daily.
People some how believe you can have low taxes and good services,I think the state of social chaos in USA makes a point loudly, everyone wants to have a Rolls Royce servce for mini money. Tories slashed and burned council services over last 11 years and national debt went up!!!!
Also there’s a culture that people are loathe to grass up neighbours or relatives, it’s not seen as positive to have social workers involved in any way in a families life.
More social workers are assaulted each year than either nurses or police; of which vast the majority are not reported as social workers feel beleaguered and unsupported. Kids can destroy careers and drive carers into situations where mental health is at risk.
Social workers, last people you call, first people you blame.