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Arlene Foster hanging by a thread.

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Nic Robinson, Apr 28, 2021.

  1. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    Never seen the series, Tony, but thanks for the mention, I'll look out for it.

    As you say, the whole situation is perverse, which is why neither Ireland nor the UK really wants it - as I've said before, they'd be much happier if it joined its most famous creation at the bottom of the Atlantic. And nobody's hands are clean (with the honourable exception of the regrettably late John Hume). However, collusion and collaboration is one thing, being dictated to by a non-elected body is quite another. And the evidence is strong that this is what is happening between SF and the IRA.

    Yes, the policies of SF are more progressive than those of the knuckle-draggers on the Loyalist side, but the days of those knuckle-draggers are numbered - by their actions and attitudes, they are becoming less relevant. As somebody said, the DUP has done more to advance the cause of Irish unity in the last 5 years than did 50 years of IRA terrorism. And when their time is up, they will disappear. However, again to quote Gerry Adams on the IRA, "They haven't gone away, y'know". And they won't quietly go away, which is what makes SF in government so potentially problematic.
     
    tonerei and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  2. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Agreed, but worth noting most of the recent rioting/violence/stuff on fire has been on the loyalist side. I’d far prefer it if something entirely new, modern and clear from the past emerged (as I would here), but given what’s on the table there I’d have to vote SF as I believe so firmly in civil rights (abortion, LGBT rights etc). The DUP is an absolutely vile party. The very worst of religion coupled with the very worst of hard right-wing nationalism.
     
  3. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    Hi Tones, can you share some of this evidence with us?

    I'm seeing articles about a former police chief making such claims (and that MI5 thought the same thing) but, I dunno, I'm not inclined to put too much faith in DUP and security service sources when it comes to Northern Ireland.

    I second Tony's recommendation of the BBC documentary series, "The Troubles". It was a real eye-opener for me.
     
  4. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Almost in a prologue to Act 1 of what the Tory Party would become under Johnson, the DUP were caught red handed ( I know...) in a scheme, The Renewable Heat Incentive Scheme, to enrich supporters through exploitation and fraud at a cost to the public purse of hundreds of millions of pounds. When it was rumbled, Foster refused to step down while her central role in the scheme was investigated and instead she chose to bring down power sharing in Northern Ireland, forcing Westminster to assume direct rule.

    Even after that her party assumed the role of king makers at Westminster, extracting gelt out of an embattled Tory government by holding the balance of power in the Commons. They must have thought it was a new golden age of Ulster unionism- until Johnson usurped May and discarded them like an old shoe and at the same time humiliating them by creating a border between their voters and the rest of the UK, symbolically leaving them behind, inside the EU they despised.
     
    PsB likes this.
  5. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    A recent example is the funeral of former IRA senior member Bobby Storey, which Michelle O'Neill attended and which was in total contravention of the COVID requirements that she supported - for everyone else. Mary Lou McDonald and Gerry Adams were also in attendance. It was very much an IRA funeral, and it was one cause of the recent rioting by Loyalists, who saw this as one rule for the Nationalists/Republicans, another for the Loyalists.

    There is also the fact that IRA atrocities are passed off (still) as the sort of collateral damage that unfortunately occurs in wartime, as opposed to what they are, terrorist atrocities. There was a vague expression of regret recently for the assassination of Lord Mountbatten, but, as the Irish Times nicely put it, the puppet masters allow Sinn Féin to only go so far:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/michael-mcdowell-puppet-masters-won-t-allow-any-sinn-féin-apology-for-mountbatten-1.4542787?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/michael-mcdowell-puppet-masters-won-t-allow-any-sinn-f%C3%A9in-apology-for-mountbatten-1.4542787

    The Garda also has no doubts as to who's really running the show.

    P.S. Another good comment from today's Irish Times:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...s-sf-is-no-ordinary-political-party-1.4551504
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
    tonerei, PsB and droodzilla like this.
  6. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    This was actually useful. Northern Ireland had very restrictive abortion laws, forcing many girls to go to the mainland. So, in the absence of an Executive, Westminster legislated for Northern Ireland, to the DUP's horror. They even farcically tried to reinstate the Executive, so that they could do something about it, but failed to get a quorum, because the Alliance Party wouldn't play ball.
     
    TheDecameron likes this.
  7. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Is that what might be called a flounce-reverse ferret/deflounce ?
     
  8. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK I had amnesia once or twice...

    No thanks, I already have one.
     
  9. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    With triple reverse somersault and pike.
     
  10. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    I’m sorry, I just saw Ms.Foster performing that and it’s too much...
     
  11. SteveS1

    SteveS1 I heard that, pardon?

    On a similar line regarding images that can’t be unseen, I assume the bodyguard sued.
     
  12. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Anyone any idea of the future trajectory of the DUP? I’ve not been following this closely so don’t even know who the main leadership players are. Is the party likely to shift even further into fundamentalist religious bigotry and authoritarianism or reverse out from it?
     
  13. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    The current indications are that the DUP is returning to its extreme fundamentalist Free Presbyterian roots - Edwin Poots, an ardent fundamentalist, is apparently front runner. He was described in an opinion piece by a fellow DUP member as a man with "a traditional outlook on moral issues", i.e. bigot. There are all the signs of nailing the colours to the mast and going down guns blazing, rejoicing in the joy of the Coliseum scoreline LIONS 10 - CHRISTIANS 0. But go down they will - even Northern Ireland changes slowly, and there is developing a middle ground that owes allegiance neither to the Unionists nor to the Nationalists. Unfortunately, before we reach any sort of sensible conclusion, there is much misery to come for poor, unwanted Northern Ireland under this parade of clowns, with the help of that other parade of clowns in Westminster
     
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr, PsB, Nick_G and 3 others like this.
  14. Somafunk

    Somafunk pfm Member

    That ship (ark is suitably appropriate) has sailed and is now stuck in the doldrums awaiting the appearance of the Kraken.

    Sir Jeffery Donaldson : protege of Enoch Powell

    Edwin Poots : batshit mental creationist

    Gavin Robertson : Mr Potato Head in human form
     
    Rob998 and Tony L like this.
  15. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Not good then!
     
  16. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    I am not a supporter of the DUP or have any truck with their policies so I don't really see your point. I said it was difficult to pick a side & I stand by that.
     
  17. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    My bingo card is being filled
     
  18. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    Yes, I am a labour supporter, the current leader probably isn't much cop but I don't believe he has been involved in paramilitary activity or is associated with it?
     
  19. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    I broadly agree with you but I find it difficult put aside some of the past events, this applies to all sides.
     
  20. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Agreed. There is blood everywhere, obviously including the UK Conservative Party and its close links to slavery, imperialism, colonialism etc, plus obviously its ongoing part in creating the mess in NI. The only thing we can do short of hosing the lot out and starting again (which I approve of!) is to assess using current perspectives. I’ll always vote for the party on the ticket that more closely defends and furthers civil rights, democracy and political accountability. That is unquestionably not the DUP. It is astonishing that authoritarian religious bullshit still exists in NI to the extent women actually have to flee to other parts of the UK for abortions etc. I’m not saying I’d vote SF in NI, I’d likely end up with one of the other progressives on the ticket just as I do here in England, but I’d certainly be voting against the DUP with everything I had.
     
    Nic Robinson and Woodface like this.

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