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Are so called high end systems a waste of time?

zekezebra

zekezebra

pfm Member
I see countless complaints of the sound quality of re-masters and modern recordings, myself included.

Last week I spent an evening in a bar where everything was played a bit too loud (for conversation) through big sets of JBL speakers and stuff that I would normally say was "a bad recording/mastering" sounded perfectly acceptable!!

Today I had to work at home and had internet radio going all day through a SqueezeBox Boom and once again at no time did I feel that the sound was unacceptable. Some tracks I even tried through my main system and yes the limitations were obvious.

My partner feels the same, she has a modest system but has bought CD's to mine, Matalica comes to mind, and not liked the "sound". If I try to say that's what it really sounds like she looks at me as if I'm mad!

I know that folk here are striving for great sound but for me that only seems to come with great recordings/mastering which seems to be few and far between these days that is for the majority of stuff that I like.

I know some will say it's my crap system but it sounds great on the good stuff but mighty poor on lots of modern stuff!
 
Certainly not a waste of time, but there's a good argument IME for not opening the window too wide when it isn't appropriate, or at least having that window adjustable either with the ability to change it on the fly, or running several systems.

I'd qualify that by saying you can't have too good a source, and amps are pretty much a muchness compared to what's happening at both ends of the chain. But you can either swap in a loudspeaker with more limited resolution, of use some sort of filtering to adapt a single 'hi-res' system to better cope more more limited material.

A lot of the problem is tonal in nature. Something EQ'd for small loudspeakers, earbuds or portable systems, quite common today, will generally sound very overcooked when played on a wide range monitor. It's one of the reasons I like the option of some EQ, even if its just bass/treble controls.
 
My big JBL system is actually very revealing and bad recordings still sound bad, what you will find is that bad recordings are masked by other ambient noise in busy bars.

I do get narked by poor recordings, I find it pretty unacceptable. Still, I think my system is worth it because there are many great recordings that sound sensational through it.
 
linnfomaniac83 said:
My big JBL system is actually very revealing and bad recordings still sound bad, what you will find is that bad recordings are masked by other ambient noise in busy bars.
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Quite a lot of stuff sounds perfectly ok on a nice radio - something like a vintage mono Grundig with a big elliptical speaker. It then falls apart when it gets dissected on a good hi-fi. This tells me that it wasn't mastered for playback on a good hi-fi.

Everyone should get themselves an nice big transistor Grundig, Telefunken or ITT radio. Minimum 5" speaker. Quite enlightening!
I'd say its quite close to the experience you get from listening to the master via the bridge mounted studio Auratones of old.
 
Strange though but on the big JBL's in the bar (mostly rock stuff) things like Foo Fighters, Matalica sounded good but modern U2 stuff still sounded terrible!
 
Robert said:
Quite a lot of stuff sounds perfectly ok on a nice radio - something like a vintage mono Grundig with a big elliptical speaker. It then falls apart when it gets dissected on a good hi-fi. This tells me that it wasn't mastered for playback on a good hi-fi.

Everyone should get themselves an nice big transistor Grundig, Telefunken or ITT radio. Minimum 5" speaker. Quite enlightening!
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Robert,

I think what you are getting at is that at lower volumes some modest reproducers can sound very nice. A good example may be a well put together system built around the LS35A speakers.

I believe that if your tastes do not require loud playback an audiophile can be satisfied by a modest stereo.

Yours from a Truly frigid Alberta,

Louballoo
 
zekezebra said:
I know that folk here are striving for great sound but for me that only seems to come with great recordings/mastering which seems to be few and far between these days that is for the majority of stuff that I like.
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Well, you could just learn to like light female jazz singers :)

Still better than the sound effect LP's people used to "highlight" their sound systems with in the 60's...
 
louballoo said:
Many, many modern recordings sound like crap. Its like nobody cares any more.

Louballoo
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Quite agree, my friend sat in at all the mixing/mastering session for her latest CD even arguing with the engineer who wanted to make it "radio friendly" with massive compression and bass boost. She bought it round to mine and was really happy with the finished product.

Maybe guys like Bono really don't care which really surprises me!
 
Most of the music I buy was badly recorded/mastered - I have accepted it. Sometimes the vinyl sounds no better than spotify.
 
louballoo said:
Many, many modern recordings sound like crap. Its like nobody cares any more.

Louballoo
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I tend to agree. Poor old recordings suffer from noise, compression, limited bandwidth etc but these things are somehow less obectionable that the faults of poor modern recordings: compression (cramming the recording "full"), processing, excessive mixing and general buggering about. I suspect this is because the people dong the "caring" are marketing men not artists or recording/mixing engineers. Cher's "Believe" marks a step change (downwards) in recording quality of commercial music IMO.

That said there are some wonderful modern recordings and remasters around.

I'm not sure this is anything new though. A pal of mine says the Wolfgang's Vault recordings of the Montreux Jazz festival are astonishingly good from around 1959, but very poor around 1962. Maybe they did some cost cutting on the recording rig?
 
Is it a surprise some recordings aren't what we hope for. I can never quite understand how when an artist recorded close mike'd, instruments wired straight to desk, monitored through some small bookshelf size speakers balanced on top i
How is that meant sound "real" ?

Interestingly since becoming a PMC owner I get news and mails shot showing how they set up another studio with some of their monster active speakers... Which you would hope the more studios that invest in that type of kit might hear and master to fuller more dynamic sound.

I think the PC loaded with recording kit used in the back bedroom to make an album isn't going to give the sort of sonic results we hope for.

I tend to think singled miked "live" recordings give the most enjoyable experience. I guess that's too demanding for some musicians and recording studios.
 
Unfortunately for every 1 audiophile like ourselves there are probably 10000 people, mainly young 'uns, listening to the music on Iphones, car radio, Iphone docking stations etc... It's for this majority that (sadly) it's mixed to sound acceptable to... not us.
Notice that most of the good recordings (I'm generalising) are of music that may be considered rather esoteric or old fashioned (jazz, classical, folk etc) for the taste of the young plebs!
 
There are many High End systems that make music sound worse than a cheap transistor radio.

The reason for this is they are crap at playing music but great at recreating sounds.

if you find yourself preferring the sound of your car stereo its a fair hint that your home system is probably not working properly.
 
I sat in with my friend during the recordings of one of her tracks and the imidiate play back from the desk sounded fine. Acording to her it was after we left and the engineeer "played" with it that it already got worse!

When she went back to the studio next day she was horrified by the raw sound (rough mix/pre-master)!
 
david ellwood said:
There are many High End systems that make music sound worse than a cheap transistor radio.

The reason for this is they are crap at playing music but great at recreating sounds.

if you find yourself preferring the sound of your car stereo its a fair hint that your home system is probably not working properly.
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I have a feeling you may have hit the nail on the head to some extent! But it also maybe a case of seeing a "great looking" girl across the room but when you get close up.....
 
I heard a high end version of the 4 seasons and it really grated , then I heard an opus 3 recording of eric bibb and the sound was just breathtaking .... can`t believe how good it is for texture , presence and just oodles of realism
 
david ellwood said:
There are many High End systems that make music sound worse than a cheap transistor radio.

The reason for this is they are crap at playing music but great at recreating sounds.

if you find yourself preferring the sound of your car stereo its a fair hint that your home system is probably not working properly.
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Don't really understand this. I've never heard any budget, mid or hifi system that sounded worse than a cheap tranny. There have been many I didn't like, but they're all better than the sound of that single tiny speaker trying to recreate stereo.

Don't understand your other comment, either. High end systems reproduce what is recorded. You might not like how they do it, but they can't influence how the music is played.
 
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