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Anyone with Quad 57's in the London/SE region?

A

Alan Sircom

I dü werds, me
Hi,

I have a pair of 12W limited edition Berning power amps (and the matching line-level preamp) in for test. I have a sneaking suspicion they will be at their best with a pair of Quad 57s, but my room does not work for these speakers at all.

Does anyone in the London/SE region (or in the New Forest, for that matter) have a pair of 57s installed and in relatively good nick, who would like to listen to what might be the best amps ever designed for their loudspeakers for an evening in the next week or so?

ESL-63s may work well too, but I have a feeling the match between 57 and Berning might be epic.

Let me know, possibly by PM, so we can arrange a time.

You can't get to keep them, I'm afraid, but I'll pay the standard going rate (one bottle of Talisker 10 year old whisky, or equivalent).
 
Alan,

Wouldn't a high-efficiency speaker be a better choice with a 12-watt amplifier?

The 57s are exceptional speakers if you can live with their limitations (beamy treble, lack of deep bass, limited SPLs, etc.), but they are inefficient and 12 watts a side is rather at the low end.

(Of course, if you go much more powerful than that the 57s will give you a nice light show.)

Joe
 
Joe P said:
The 57s are exceptional speakers if you can live with their limitations (beamy treble, lack of deep bass, limited SPLs, etc.), but they are inefficient and 12 watts a side is rather at the low end.
Click to expand...

By saying that a Quad II has 15 watts, a Leak Stereo 20 just 10, and both are known to be superb matches with 57s.
 
Joe P said:
Alan,

Wouldn't a high-efficiency speaker be a better choice with a 12-watt amplifier?

The 57s are exceptional speakers if you can live with their limitations (beamy treble, lack of deep bass, limited SPLs, etc.), but they are inefficient and 12 watts a side is rather at the low end.

(Of course, if you go much more powerful than that the 57s will give you a nice light show.)

Joe
Click to expand...

The high-eff thing has been covered. But there's a reputed something about OTL and electrostatics that is the stuff of legend. I remember hearing something similar with a pair of Croft OTLs and modified ESL-63s that didn't happen with any other loudspeaker, and both Allan Bhagan of Berning and the late Harvey 'Gizmo' Rosenberg point to the combination of OTL and ESL as being especially special in a special way.
 
Tony,

You're not helping. This was my fiendishly clever plan to get Alan to bring the Berning amp to my place to try with GRFs. Fat chance of that happening now, man.

Joe
 
Alan,

I didn't know about OTLs and ESLs being a particularly good match. I ran my 57s with a Nait 2, which worked exceptionally well and, as a bonus, was underpowered enough to not arc the panels. I never tried them with anything tubular.

I eventually "upgraded" to something better (Saras and a 250* -- ya, I know), but in many ways the Nait and Quads were wonderful.

Joe

* It was during my phat bass phase.

P.S. Rob's the man to talk to. He has 57s in good shape, is in London, is a decent bloke,...
 
Tony L said:
By saying that a Quad II has 15 watts, a Leak Stereo 20 just 10, and both are known to be superb matches with 57s.
Click to expand...

Possibly the best sound I have ever heard was from a VERY heavily modified (by me :D) Stereo 20 with a set of rebuilt ESL57's. Unless you were into house music at neighbour baiting volumes then there was no lack of either bass or volume!
 
A kind of "Holly Grail" of hifi is the prospect of driving ELS loudspeakers directly from a very high voltage power amp, without any transformers at all, straight to the ELS panels. This needs a power amp capable of 2000 Volts or so of output and so although solid state could be used, the job is more suited to valves. To the best of my knowledge this has only ever been done commercially by Acoustat back in the seventies. I heard a set very briefly at the old Harrogate show but they were playing some classical music very quietly and were switched off after a few minutes so I didn't get to form any impression of them unfortunately...
 
Alan Sircom said:
But there's a reputed something about OTL and electrostatics that is the stuff of legend.
Click to expand...

Of course the Berning is 'not just any valve OTL' or 'not quite a valve OTL' (depending on your point of view/cynicism), so perhaps you may want to spice up the article with a more in-depth address of the underlying technology, something Mr.Gregory failed to do with his earlier review of the big Berning.
 
Joe P said:
Tony,

You're not helping. This was my fiendishly clever plan to get Alan to bring the Berning amp to my place to try with GRFs. Fat chance of that happening now, man.

Joe
Click to expand...

Not necessarily... Hearing them on the end of GRFs could be interesting in the extreme. Where are you based?
 
Werner said:
Of course the Berning is 'not just any valve OTL' or 'not quite a valve OTL' (depending on your point of view/cynicism), so perhaps you may want to spice up the article with a more in-depth address of the underlying technology, something Mr.Gregory failed to do with his earlier review of the big Berning.
Click to expand...

Yeah, OK so it's a hybrid amp. Somewhere between an OTL-scented solid-state amp and an OTL with some solid-state chums in place to stop the thing going suicidal. It also means it's an OTL amp that doesn't take up a whole floor, or burn through a tube every 4.8 seconds.

Whatever... result.
 
Alan,

Not necessarily... Hearing them on the end of GRFs could be interesting in the extreme. Where are you based?
Click to expand...
In Canada. I know, that pesky pond betwixt and between us.

Berning is a company I've read quite a bit about, but I've never seen any of their products in the flesh. In fact, the Berning ZH-270 was highly recommended by several people when I switched from a stereotypical flat earth set-up to the tubes and old Tannoys I have now.

Even if you don't get a chance to try the Berning with GRFs I'd be very interested in your opinion, as the ZOTL technology is, as far as I know, unique.

Joe
 
Joe P said:
Alan,


In Canada. I know, that pesky pond betwixt and between us.

Berning is a company I've read quite a bit about, but I've never seen any of their products in the flesh. In fact, the Berning ZH-270 was highly recommended by several people when I switched from a stereotypical flat earth set-up to the tubes and old Tannoys I have now.

Even if you don't get a chance to try the Berning with GRFs I'd be very interested in your opinion, as the ZOTL technology is, as far as I know, unique.

Joe
Click to expand...

Well, I think those who recommended the Berning were pretty much on the money. I've always been wary of recommending OTLs because:

1. They blow tubes like a crazy thing made of madness
2. They have problems at the frequency extremes
3. They only work with 1% of loudspeakers

Somehow, the Berning ZOTL makes #1 a thing of the past, minimises #2 and now seems to work with about 75% of loudspeakers. Or more.

OTLs and horns and OTLs and ESLs were always the best mixes, anyway.
 
Alan,

I checked Berning's site and didn't see a full description of the amp you've mentioned --

I have a pair of 12W limited edition Berning power amps (and the matching line-level preamp) in for test.
Click to expand...

Is it the custom-build amp listed on the product page -- i.e., a 12-watt amp in the ZH-230 case?

Joe
 
Arkless Repairs said:
A kind of "Holly Grail" of hifi is the prospect of driving ELS loudspeakers directly from a very high voltage power amp, without any transformers at all, straight to the ELS panels. This needs a power amp capable of 2000 Volts or so of output and so although solid state could be used, the job is more suited to valves. To the best of my knowledge this has only ever been done commercially by Acoustat back in the seventies. I heard a set very briefly at the old Harrogate show but they were playing some classical music very quietly and were switched off after a few minutes so I didn't get to form any impression of them unfortunately...
Click to expand...

Tim de P of EAR did this as well. He might still make you one if you pay him enough!
 
Joe P said:
Alan,

I checked Berning's site and didn't see a full description of the amp you've mentioned --



Is it the custom-build amp listed on the product page -- i.e., a 12-watt amp in the ZH-230 case?

Joe
Click to expand...

Yes. I wasn't going to let this in for review. But it seems it's not quite as limited edition as I first thought.
 
Alan,

Does Berning publish a price list? I couldn't find anything on the website.

Joe
 
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