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Anyone using a Khozmo passive pre amp?

Alex S said:
Tony will know more about the system matching but as for the selector issue - if it's the Lorlin you're worried about, email Arek/Khozmo and ask for an Elma instead. He'll be happy to fit that for the extra it costs. Then all you need decide is whether you want dual mono or stereo and whether you want to pay for upgraded resistors.
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Alex, I know zero what upgraded resistors do vs ordinary and if they are worth the extra dosh.
Could this be explained for a non tech'ie ?
 
Tony L said:
The 303 certainly likes passive preamps (assuming a suitable source upstream) and is a decent enough amp to hear the differences between various pots, attenuators etc.
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Tony, it is not decided exactly what sources, I will use whats available from my shelf in the beginning.
At the moment I have a Roksan cd player, an old Arcam tuner and a Planar 1/Fono to start up, not high end, whatever that is, but a point where I intend to learn from.
So little experience with passive pre and Quad 303 but looking forward indeed.
 
If you want to try a cheap passive consider knocking up something similar to my little Tupperware job upthread. I used a very good TKD pot, but other than that it cost peanuts and it sounds remarkably good. Use a 10k log pot.
 
PerF said:
Alex, I know zero what upgraded resistors do vs ordinary and if they are worth the extra dosh.
Could this be explained for a non tech'ie ?
Click to expand...

I can tell you what I’ve read and what I’ve been told but I’ve done no comparison (nor will I). There are plenty of naysayers, resistors are to DIY what cables are to us lot but the Vishay Zfoils seem universally loved so I went for those.

I also went for Takman Rex (carbon) on my first Khozmo and although I pondered Takman Rey (metal) for my second (yes, they’re so good I’ve ordered two) I took Hifi Collective’s advice and went for Rex again.

Apparently Rex is detailed but with a bit of warmth, tubiness if you like, whilst Rey are even more detailed but a little clinical. For the cost of entry I decided to go for Takmans and I’m very pleased with the result. I’ll never know if I’d have been equally pleased without the ‘upgrades ‘.

Arek, who makes the Khozmos and Hattors seems totally straight and offered similar advice. He is fitting an Elma source selector to the second Khozmo and offered me a couple of choices.
 
I’m constantly amazed at how good a decent pot can sound. I’m sure that if you don’t need an active pre, it’s the way to go. If you only have one source like me, then it’s a no brainer. I’ve played with Tony’s Tupperware pre, and it’s very good. Well worth building one and trying a few different pots in if you have the inclination. I think the bigger TKD pot I use is even better on on imaging and 3D separation than the little one Tony chose. Then again it costs three times as much nearly so it should do! Personally and I suspect I’ve said it before, stepped attenuators have issues, mine was either too loud or too quiet. With a 306 it matches perfectly.
 
It all depends on the number of steps an attenuator has and how they are assigned. IIRC the Khozmos have 47 or so, which is plenty. The Audio Synthesis I use has 31 I think, but its clever so the area you tend to use is far more finely stepped than the extremes. That equates to 1db steps most of the range and a couple of 4 db steps at the very ends that no one ever uses. If one goes a step further and actually makes a stepped attenuator from scratch (e.g. buy the switch and resistors to taste) you can obviously spec it to taste/context, e.g. if the amp is something like a Leak Stereo 20 that has huge gain then you could build an attenuator where the whole range of steps were between really quiet and about half way open as there is no way you’d ever need more. Even a 24 step switch would give good range there.
 
The way the Khozmos are implemented in my passive gives about 10 usable positions (5 clicks either way from about 12 o'clock). I also use mine at maximum on one of the inputs, when watching TV, the TV remote controls the volume.

Compared with the Tisbury Mk 2, which is stepped series attenuator, there is more residual attenuation in the Khozmos shunt implementation, I have to turn the TV up a few more notches.

For music comfortable levels are around 12 o'clock, with 2 o'clock being too loud, and this is from a 0.8 volt maximum output dac.

The Khozmos give more of what the Tisbury does so well, it's an uncanny naturalness to instruments. Do you remember when you first used a decent equipment stand, or put your speakers on spikes? How the background noise, that you never noticed until it was gone, went away? The Khozmos do that to a further degree. Alex was wowed, I didn't get that wow, but I as I listen further I hear it..

I suspect that speaker efficiency will play a role, the more efficient the speakers the more the absence of electronic noise of a passive is going to impress. They really are a great fit with class D and class T amps.
 
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Khozmo shunt attenuators that appear in the built units have 48 steps. These offer a near 'straight wire with gain' with a single resistor in the signal path at any time. Noise floor drops, clarity and definition improve. These aspects I expected but in my system there is no downside of dullness or reduced dynamic contrast. Khozmo make others that can be purchased for DIY or are fitted to the Hattor range that have 64 steps. In my setups 48 steps is plenty. My DAC outputs 3V, the phono stage is ballsy, my amps are class D and my speakers are 101dB efficient. This all helps a passive fit in, the main wonder is why I didn't do this years ago.
 
Alex S said:
I can tell you what I’ve read and what I’ve been told but I’ve done no comparison (nor will I). There are plenty of naysayers, resistors are to DIY what cables are to us lot but the Vishay Zfoils seem universally loved so I went for those.

I also went for Takman Rex (carbon) on my first Khozmo and although I pondered Takman Rey (metal) for my second (yes, they’re so good I’ve ordered two) I took Hifi Collective’s advice and went for Rex again.

Apparently Rex is detailed but with a bit of warmth, tubiness if you like, whilst Rey are even more detailed but a little clinical. For the cost of entry I decided to go for Takmans and I’m very pleased with the result. I’ll never know if I’d have been equally pleased without the ‘upgrades ‘.

Arek, who makes the Khozmos and Hattors seems totally straight and offered similar advice. He is fitting an Elma source selector to the second Khozmo and offered me a couple of choices.
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Exiting Alex

I'm not ready to decide yet, need further investigations and insight into the many options.
May have a chat with Arek at some point.

Looking forward hearing your experience with Elma version Khozmo, are we still talking decent money here ?

Sorry if allready mentioned but what poweramp do you use ?
 
Power amps are Temple Audio Monoblocks (with a power supply that cost more than they did). My second Khozmo is dual mono, all point to point, with an Elma switch that adds $90. I had the option of this or one at $50. Total cost: £475. Now compare that to a NAC 282 at 10 times the price.
 
Alex S said:
My second Khozmo is dual mono, all point to point, with an Elma switch that adds $90. I had the option of this or one at $50. Total cost: £475. Now compare that to a NAC 282 at 10 times the price.
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Actually, more like 12 times the price when you figure in a Hicap, and 20 if it's a Supercap!

My Sean made dual mono Khozmo, with Elna comes in a shade less than an Arek made.
 
Alex S said:
Power amps are Temple Audio Monoblocks (with a power supply that cost more than they did). My second Khozmo is dual mono, all point to point, with an Elma switch that adds $90. I had the option of this or one at $50. Total cost: £475. Now compare that to a NAC 282 at 10 times the price.
Click to expand...

Thanks Alex

Looking forward hearing your impressions of the dual mono version.

I'm really in new territory here, much exiting stuff

Atb
 
Alex S said:
Khozmo shunt attenuators that appear in the built units have 48 steps. These offer a near 'straight wire with gain' with a single resistor in the signal path at any time. Noise floor drops, clarity and definition improve. These aspects I expected but in my system there is no downside of dullness or reduced dynamic contrast.
Click to expand...

You mean straight wire without gain, but the rest is spot on.
 
I ordered a Khozmo preamplifier with Elma switch and Vishay z-foil upgrade resistors a few days ago, it has been shipped today. I'm looking forward to trying it with my Quad 303 and Arcam output CD player.
 
Anyone owned a Khozmo and a Promitheus TVC and if so is there a clear winner?
When I was using a Leak ST20 I found the Promitheus to be noticeably better than my diy passive (valab) but sold the TVC when I changed my whole setup. Considering trying the passive route again so was wondering whether I should seek out a Promitheus or consider buying a Khozmo......
 
I've ordered a stereo Khozmo, with remote and Takman and Vishay upgrades. I'm currently using a Dave Slagle autoformer volume control with a Shallco 24-position switch. The comparison between the two should prove interesting.The Khozmo certainly has a lot less wire between input and output.
 
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