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Anti-vaccine protesters… why?

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Tony L, Oct 23, 2021.

  1. k90tour

    k90tour pfm Member

    The view of some people that global warming is a conspiracy (therefore I play no part in it), and covid is a conspiracy (any that's nothing to do with me at all either, I can't spread a non-virus) show's a complete contempt for anyone other than the I'm Out For Myself group. My rights are more important than my responsibilities. Let the vulnerable die or lock themselves away and let me carry on. And it's my right to fly to four skiing holidays per year. Always has been, since the beginning of time.
  2. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I see no conflict there. I mostly understand the science relating to audio (I certainly respect it!), but I will always buy stuff I personally like the sound of. I have never stated that I am pursuing accuracy, more selecting a compromise of my own choosing that works for me. I also apply other non-audio criteria to my choices in that I love restoring stuff, keeping it safe from landfill and putting back far more than I take out via sharing knowledge etc, i.e. there is a political aspect to my audio choices too. I have tried to move somewhere beyond consumerism.
    TheDecameron, darrenyeats and Yank like this.
  3. mikemusic

    mikemusic pfm Member

    The more I learn the more I see how little I know.
    Yet still this is much more than so many others, usually the vocal ones
  4. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    Indeed. One marker of true intelligence is self-awareness. The inverse of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
  5. NeilR

    NeilR pfm Member

    the only thing i can think of is to start teaching critical thinking techniques to children at school so they can learn to filter out the worst excesses of the internet etc. It won’t help us immediately, but in time we might be able to move society onto saner ground.
  6. Hook

    Hook Blackbeard's former bo'sun.

    After spending yesterday afternoon with three kids (ages 15, 12 and 10), I’m convinced they are already applying more critical thinking than many adults.
    darrenyeats likes this.
  7. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    And that's practically the definition of today's right wing.
    Hook likes this.
  8. dadgad

    dadgad pfm Member

    I have enough of a background in science to be able to follow some of the discussion around what Covid does and how the vaccines work. Its a challenge to communicate things well to a lay audience while maintaining scientific accuracy. One young researcher who is doing a great job is Dr Rob Swanda, who has recently completed a Ph.D on using m-RNA for other medical applications. Rob has posted a series of informative short videos on Youtube and his blog. As someone who has spent time developing educational materials in science I can only applaud his efforts!

    One common accusation by anti-vaxxers is that the vaccines were 'rushed' or developed 'too quickly'. However a number of factors really helped to speed the vaccine development.

    Firstly, researchers were able to physically isolate Covid-19 virus from humans affected by the disease. There are electron micrograph photos of virus particles emerging ('Alien-like') from smashed-up cells they've infected - look for the picture credited to Dr Katherine Davies on this page:

    Secondly, biochemists at the University of Texas were able to completely map the details of the spike protein and see where it attaches to human cells. See the picture credited to UT Austin, McClellan Lab on this page:

    and note that the structure was published as early as February 2020. The researchers spotted that the green strand at the top of the spike in that picture is the point of attachment and that was then an obvious target for the vaccine. All three vaccines approved in the UK work by covering that 'binding site' and reducing the amount of infection. Of course if you get a high 'viral load' (e.g. lots of virus) that may not be enough to give you complete immunity but it will greatly reduce the risk of death/hospitalisation.

    On the 'delta variant' the vaccines still cover the protein spikes, but any virus particles that evade the vaccine are particularly good at reproducing themselves. So you may end up with a high viral load and become more ill than with the previous variants. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't take the vaccine though - it means that you really, really, should take it if Delta is around. One of the Swanda videos talks about Covid mutations:

    Ooops, this comment turned out longer than I thought - hope its still useful!
  9. k90tour

    k90tour pfm Member

    Apparently not...
    "By the way, whatever they are injecting into you, it can't be Covid, because Covid has never been isolated in a laboratory and isolated according to Koch's Postulates. Offically and legally then, it doesn't exist."

    As quoted upstream and amongst anti-vaxxers everywhere. Nothing you can say will undue the original untruth.
  10. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    Important line in Nature: 'a single dose of Pfizer or AZ shown to reduce transmission of Covid by half'.
    k90tour likes this.
  11. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley Agnostic

    This just popped up on my YouTube feed:

    John Phillips likes this.
  12. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    darrenyeats likes this.
  13. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    I’m not sure we can be that categoric about beliefs and religion. Until a few years ago, many here, including myself, had a very strong belief saying that hi-fi was an important thing. In some threads you could easily replace the words “cables” and “mana” with the names of some deities.
    RJohan and chartz like this.
  14. jon l

    jon l pfm Member

  15. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    My anti-vaccine Vegan brother in law and his partner both have got Covid in the past week, he's had a terrible time with the coughing, bad enough to have had an ambulance out.
    My vaccinated sister in law and one of my nieces both have got Covid a couple of weeks back, they tested positive and felt unwell but no really bad or painful symptoms.
  16. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    My vaccinated sister in law and her vaccinated hubby have had covid for a week.
    She had to call an ambulance out for her hubby midweek, his temperature was dangerously high.
  17. paulfromcamden

    paulfromcamden Baffled

  18. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    Yeah they are selfish dickheads.
    Excluding those with medical reasons obv.
    MartinC likes this.
  19. paulfromcamden

    paulfromcamden Baffled

    Sorry to hear that Bob. Hope they're both on the mend soon.
  20. jon l

    jon l pfm Member

    It's a nuanced, detailed, view from a pro-vax psychiatrist and psychoanalyst as to how the handling and communication of the dominated political and to some extent scientific voices, particularly in the USA, has contributed to "vaccine-hesitancy" and downright anti-vax sentiment, rather than breaking it down.

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