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Anglepoise: vintage or modern?

calorgas

calorgas

Generic middle-aged man
(Trivial dilemma alert....)

Looking to buy an anglepoise for the living room, unsure whether to buy vintage or just get a new one.
The new ones look pretty much the same as the vintage ones and the price difference is not all that much either, especially if looking at the tidier vintage ones plus there are various offers around on new ones. In fact some of the older/rarer vintage ones can have crazy high prices.

I do quite like the idea of an older one as I quite like the 'patina of age', but at the same time don't want to pay a load of money for something that's worn out and requires fixing up.

So are the new ones as well made as the older ones (which clearly last pretty well)? Any reason to favour one over the other?
 
All are good IMO. I’ve got an early ‘50s black 1227 that was my mother’s and also a more recent Type 75 that was in a prior Amazon Black Friday deal for about £60. I definitely prefer the 1227 as it is a true design classic, but do bare in mind you’ll need to rewire it to ensure it is safe. There is really nice safe modern but appropriate looking cloth-covered wiring available (eBay). I’ve kitted mine out this way. It is really not hard to do, maybe an hour’s work to do to a really high standard.

When looking to buy a vintage 1227 as well as overall condition pay close attention to the bulb-holder that is fitted. The original Crabtree bakelite units are getting real hard to find in good condition (luckily mine was perfect), but you do need it if you want the lamp to look ‘right’ and not like a modern copy. I have a Hive bulb in mine so it just switches itself on and off on a timer or from my iPad, so I’m not placing any additional wear on the bulb-holder.

PS Based on the modern Type 75 the build quality is still really good, though I’d not pay £150+ for one, for that money I’d personally prefer a real vintage 1227, or a 1970s Model 90 for a lot less.
 
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I was lucky and liberated what I am 90++% sure is an Anglepoise type 75, from the skip at work, several years ago. It gets quite a lot of use as it is my primary lighting for the HiFi - room lighting is very subdued. I suspect that it will see quite a few years yet.

I was horrified at the current price when I just checked.

That doesn't really answer much of your question though, although I have heard a few people curse cheap copies over the years - they generally fall apart at the joints.
 
I bought an Angle-poise copy last month for £30 posted it is brand new never been used I don’t think, it’s a 1970s version in cream total bargain.

I also have a modern angle-poise in black that I bought last year after a thread on here I ended up paying about £35 for after discounts from Amazon at the time.

Both fantastic lamps I love them my new original one is a mini version of the 1227.

Personally I'd buy the full size version of the 1227 for a living room as the mini version is quite small and probably more suited to a study or a bedroom.

Here's my two lamps the white one is about double the size of the mini 1227.

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I am working right now under the light of vintage cream 1227. I know it was at my grandparents house back in the 60s/70s but could be older. It was not wanted by anyone for ages - I liberated it some years ago from my mother, who ignored it. I knew it was an 'Anglepoise' but back then as far as I know it was not collectable. Even then I did not use for ages - lockdown and WFH has given it a life.
 
Thanks for the comments. So sounds like both vintage or modern are a decent bet as long as they're from the recognised manufacturers and not cheaper copies, but with vintage ones the wiring may need to be replaced (not a problem) and check for originality of parts. Thanks all.

twotone said:
I also have a modern angle-poise in black that I bought last year after a thread on here I ended up paying about £35 for after discounts from Amazon at the time.
Both fantastic lamps I love them my new original one is a mini version of the 1227.
Personally I'd buy the full size version of the 1227 for a living room as the mini version is quite small and probably more suited to a study or a bedroom.
Click to expand...

If I could buy a new 'proper' full size 1227 for anywhere close to what you paid, then that would be a no brainer. I can't see a 1227 or 90 for sale for less than £120 right now, so maybe I'll bide my time and see if there are any pre or post-Xmas deals to be had.

There are hundreds of used lamps for sale on ebay etc, but the good ones are fetching quite a lot of money. Decent 1227 seem to go for £120+, 75's and 90's for £50 upwards. I favour the 1227's but not sure I'm gonna pay that much for an old one unless I could properly inspect it first.
 
calorgas said:
Thanks for the comments. So sounds like both vintage or modern are a decent bet as long as they're from the recognised manufacturers and not cheaper copies, but with vintage ones the wiring may need to be replaced (not a problem) and check for originality of parts. Thanks all.



If I could buy a new 'proper' full size 1227 for anywhere close to what you paid, then that would be a no brainer. I can't see a 1227 or 90 for sale for less than £120 right now, so maybe I'll bide my time and see if there are any pre or post-Xmas deals to be had.

There are hundreds of used lamps for sale on ebay etc, but the good ones are fetching quite a lot of money. Decent 1227 seem to go for £120+, 75's and 90's for £50 upwards. I favour the 1227's but not sure I'm gonna pay that much for an old one unless I could properly inspect it first.
Click to expand...

I ended up taking a credit card offer from Amazon which discounted the purchase even further than the deal that was posted here at the time.
 
It could be well worth keeping a close eye on Amazon’s Black Friday sale as Anglepoise kit has certainly ended up heavily discounted in previous years.
 
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I have several, but I don't know if they are copies or not as I have never examined them. They all came charity shops for very little money, and they are all used as work lights in the garage or the loft. I will have to have a look at them now!
 
A common problem with copies is that the various joints are just press-fit, usually in plastic. I suspect that all genuine Anglepoise have either bolted or pin and circlip joints, even if the spacers or such are plastic, the fixings and important strutural parts aren't.
 
Seems there was a proper anglepoise model called the 'Apex 90' that used plastic joints. Not sure whether those plastic parts are a problem or not but I won't be buying one of those anyway as it just doesn't look so good with them.
 
calorgas said:
Seems there was a proper anglepoise model called the 'Apex 90' that used plastic joints. Not sure whether those plastic parts are a problem or not but I won't be buying one of those anyway as it just doesn't look so good with them.
Click to expand...

Just had a look and my 'modern' lamp was sold as an Apex 90 and supposedly with labels on the lamp but there's nothing to indicate that it's a genuine Herbert Terry lamp it is very well made I can't see any plastic joints.

Here's the original Ebay listing

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=313256675679

My modern Anglepoise 1227 is held onto the base with a small grub screw which is a bit pish being honest considering the weight of the base that connector is a real weak point IMO, you do get a spare grub screw with the lamp but the original lamps had a much more substational fixing arrangement.

The very first Anglepoise lamps had a three step base, later bases were only two steps including the modern ones, the old three step base lamps sell for the most money.
 
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twotone said:
Just had a look and my 'modern' lamp was sold as an Apex 90...
Click to expand...

I'd been looking at this page to get an overview of the timeline and official models (includes the Apex 90):
https://support.anglepoise.com/hc/e...I-date-my-vintage-or-current-Anglepoise-lamp-

Yours doesn't look quite like any of those, but I don't know if this list is comprehensive. Also not sure on who all the 'official' manufacturers are/were. Herbert Terry crops up as the main one from back in the day, but there are others too it seems. There's a funky 'Horstmann' cantilevered version on ebay which I really like the look of, but I suspect will sell for loads. The current 'Anglepoise' company suggests a connection to the Terry heritage, but not explicitly.
 
There's a Facebook group called Lamp Lovers that's supposed to be really good.
 
calorgas said:
I'd been looking at this page to get an overview of the timeline and official models (includes the Apex 90):
https://support.anglepoise.com/hc/e...I-date-my-vintage-or-current-Anglepoise-lamp-
Click to expand...

That link also highlights the Crabtree bakelite lamp-holder on a proper 1227, and by implication just how wrong the replacements tend to look. Mine has a two-tier base, still has the earlier lip on the shade, earlier springs and all metal link parts. Aside from the wiring and grommets it is entirely original and I can date it pretty accurately to 1951-2 as my grandparents bought it for my mother when she went to uni. Not mint, the odd scratch and a small ding to the shade, but all good honest patina and it looks great.
 
You need to go through the link posted by @calorgas with a fine toothed comb..................

Looks like my freebie is an Apex 90, in cream (proably white originally). One of the few "classical" anglepoise lamps where the flex is internal to the frame. The link states that some components are plastic, which they are here.
 
Because of this thread I've been looking at this type of lamp and there seem to be similar products with a similar concept from other countries that are interesting. For instance one lamp allegedly designed in 1938 by a Finn, Jacobsen.
 
Yes, loads of other great vintage lamps of similar concept. Some Anglepoise history here on Wikipedia. I especially like the BBC’s response:

“In 1948 the Board of Governors of the BBC asked the head of the Variety Department, Michael Standing, to devise a guiding set of moral standards and protocols for the production of all BBC radio and television programmes. Standing produced what became known within the BBC as the "Green Book", whose purpose was to eradicate smut, innuendo and vulgarity from all BBC programmes. After producing the book Standing took to implementing his guidance with eccentric zeal. In June 1949 he issued a memo to all staff in which he forbade BBC employees to illuminate any room with an Anglepoise lamp unless the main ceiling or wall light was also illuminated: Standing held a firm belief that a man working at a desk in a confined space with only the light from a low-wattage lamp would nurture furtive ideas and produce degenerate programme material.”

I use mine exclusively to nurture furtive ideas and degenerate program material, not limited to, but certainly including smut, innuendo and vulgarity.
 
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