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Andy Rourke (The Smiths) RIP

Discussion in 'music' started by Tony L, May 19, 2023.

  1. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    Here's the show, the best live example of them on YouTube bar none. I was wrong this is 1985 so the Meat Is Murder tour effectively.

    Like any great show the atmosphere builds gradually, purely- & by the end the crowd's like one heaving organism.

    Spiel ends at 18:00 minutes, then the Prokofiev prelude. Man.. to have actually been there. Sigh.

    Enjoy, Capt.
    Robn and Tony L like this.
  2. Aethelist

    Aethelist pfm Member

    Paid my respects over the weekend and today.

    What a band.
  3. Ellenor

    Ellenor pfm Member

    I was born in 1975 so basically grew up in the 80s. I can't remember The Smiths ever being popular with my peer group back then. I didn't like them either. It's funny how our musical tastes change as I've rediscovered them in recent years and think they're/were a fantastic group now. My daughter who is 14 loves them, she's obviously got better taste in music then I did when I was her age (Cemetery Gates a favourite of hers).

    rip Andy....
    Tarzan, alan967tiger and The Captain like this.
  4. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    @Ellenor Your post really heartens me. How fantastic that any 14 year old, in '23, would even think to listen to the smiths! (let alone choose such an ace favourite song). This is exactly the sort of thing Andy Rourke's family would love to know I'm sure. My friend's son 16, is also a huge fan (almost obsessive, like me just into my 50's). I predict very good things of your daughter (& I can't help wondering what she thinks of There Is A Light.. then too!)

    Rusholme Ruffians on the live Madrid show- Andy Rourke takes the whole lead, the whole tune, which
    I've never fully thought of/ considered really, until reading the interesting posts on here. The acoustic just providing a kind of texture behind it, but no more. This song's rhythm.. is astonishing, the bass & drums together: exquisite.
    Ellenor likes this.
  5. Weekender

    Weekender pfm Member

    Rusholme Ruffians "inspired" by Elvis's His Latest Flame:

    Written by Doc Pomus and Mort Shuman.
  6. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    A great example of just how unfair the original Smiths writing credits were! That song is all about the bass and drums, yet Morrissey/Marr got the credits and royalties. The later court cases were entirely justified IMO. There were no weak links in The Smiths, each member’s input was absolutely critical. It was Rourke’s basslines that connected with me first, just so good.
    alan967tiger likes this.
  7. irons1965

    irons1965 pfm Member

    Just listen to the title track of The Queen Is Dead to hear how important the rhythm section was!
    Tarzan and Tony L like this.
  8. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Any track, any album!
    irons1965 likes this.
  9. irons1965

    irons1965 pfm Member

    Can't really argue with that!
  10. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    I don't agree about the equal 4-way thing within the The Smiths. Rusholme Ruffians is yes, the bass doing the tune & the guitars backing it.. but the initial idea/ the writing of the song was morrissey & marr after obviously obsessing over Elvis & writing a (quite brilliant & much better) "tribute". They formed the idea & took it to the others, who added their input -afterwards. But AR & MJ didn't write the song. That's not to say I disagree with the court's decision, any band in order to progress effectively should agree to equal royalties from the off (& in terms of physical input, m.joyce eclipses them all by far). Andy Rourke was a fine bassist, & added a huge element to the eventual sound.. but he wasn't a songwriter in the band.
  11. Aethelist

    Aethelist pfm Member

    Spent some time going back through these today. Quite a convoluted story.

  12. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    Morrissey's 'autobiography'.. is really rather splendidly written. My Ma, whose a Mahler/ Sibelius/ opera/ Shakespeare/ Dickens/ D.Thomas/ Wilde etc.. cream of the crop music & literature buff (the gentlest of arts snobs), thought it was astounding too. She'd only a vague notion of who he was, totally ignoring my smiths-mentioning over the years. I read her the opening paragraph, could sense she was impressed, then left it with her.. aged 78 then.

    The very antithesis of this, is J.Marr's autobiography. Omg. Now as much as he's my guitar hero.. reading about grey Manchester streets, his extended Irish family, & 60's music, was exceptionally dull, I'm loathed to say.

    There Is A Light.. The story of the smiths (iirc being the title, summink like so) is very good. Not read Rogan one.

    RickyC6 likes this.
  13. RickyC6

    RickyC6 Infuriate the frog-men

    There's a huge amount of misinformation about this. Joyce and Rourke's case was nothing to with song writing royalties at all. Morrissey and Marr clearly wrote the songs. J & R had no issue with that. It was around the band's profits on all activities other than song writing and publishing, which was originally split 40 each to M&M and 10 each to J&R. Which had some merit, even though they happily signed the original agreement. It all came about when the band split and Morrissey refused Joyce's demands to be drummer in his solo "band". He actually threatened him with this action if he didn't let him join. A quite stupid threat when he knew Morrissey as well as he did! Rourke settled out of court and Marr was not that bothered at all, the hate and bile was all between Joyce and Morrissey. Should all have been sorted without all that subsequently happened...but hey, that's people for ya.
    alan967tiger and Tony L like this.
  14. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    I don't sense anything untoward Aetheist. But perhaps mozz is starting to overshadow Andy Rourke's thread.

    Now an autobiography by Andy Rourke.. a smiths perspective from his angle, would've been a terrific idea. This reminds me of Mike Joyce, who once said to the effect of.." I was jealous of the crowd, I wanted to be in there hearing the songs better than stuck sitting at the drums". I've never heard -any- member of a band ever say anything of the like.. sums up in a nutshell just how good the songs were. I'm sure even finding Mozzer a stuck-up bore as he often did, Andy Rourke loved the songs as much & would've loved to have dived in too.
  15. Aethelist

    Aethelist pfm Member

    TBH? I'm just feeling that people are digging too deep in what is essentially an RIP / appreciation thread and disrespecting a guy who died recently.
  16. RickyC6

    RickyC6 Infuriate the frog-men

    I’m not disrespecting Andy at all. I’ve done nothing other than listen to and love the records be played bass on since he died. It’s just inevitable that stuff gets written about the wider story of the main band he was in at a time like this.
  17. Tarzan

    Tarzan pfm Member

    Great choon that!
    irons1965 likes this.
  18. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    Andy Rourke thought M was a pompous tw4t & didn't converse with him much in the early days, nor in the studio. I think this shows he was a quiet, humble chap, as well as a wonderful bassist. M.Joyce also said he was kind & funny too. He sounds like the epitome of the perfect persona to have playing bass in your band. They were lucky to have had him, & I'm sure morrissey will have be considering this since he died even if they didn't see eye to eye.

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