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"Amps all sound the same" (more or less)

recently i used a 3k amp on some very well known speakers [ harbeth] , it was hard and clinical and boring to my ears
then that same amp on some other well known speakers [ tannoy] it was just magnificent , dynamic and fantastic

then a 150 pound sh amp on those harbeths sounded magical, engaging and liquid , just blew away the 3k amp in that context

so it depends on the speaker , the room and many other facts , just buy one and if it does not work , sell it again
 
recently i used a 3k amp on some very well known speakers [ harbeth] , it was hard and clinical and boring to my ears
then that same amp on some other well known speakers [ tannoy] it was just magnificent , dynamic and fantastic

then a 150 pound sh amp on those harbeths sounded magical, engaging and liquid , just blew away the 3k amp in that context

so it depends on the speaker , the room and many other facts , just buy one and if it does not work , sell it again

Good stuff. What was the amp, out of curiosity?

Does the "if the does not work" method apply to wives too?
 
Columbo , you need to get off the Internet and get into your local dealer with this question.

In the old days it was the HiFi magazines job to misinform people.

The idea that answers are available on YouTube or a forum is ludicrous.

Where abouts are you?
 
Well, that's kind of what I'm trying to ascertain - is the reviewer deaf and should I invest more or are most people who hear significant differences tricked by level output / or confirmation biasing and should I saved my hard earned and buy a cheaper amp instead? Of course, the easy answer is to test for myself which is the plan. But curious about other people's experiences - though my guess is very few people do precise level matched testing (to within 0.1db)? I dunno. Either way, typing all this nonsense saves me from having to do actual work right now :)

I cannot answer despite owning c.10 amps or so over the past 38 years. I was a Naim pre/power/napsc owner up until about 3 years ago when I ditched the Naim stuff due to all the faffing about with additional headphone/tt amps and so on - I dragged out an old NAD 3020i and have nevr looked back - my bro in law who have very accute hearing reconds that the NAD provides more detail if marginally less dynamics.
 
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Cheap at £5995.00
I recently bought ONKYO TX8220B receiver for £199 sounds as good to me as anything else I've had.
No wonder no one takes this sh*t seriously any longer.
 
Me I just thought, if the difference between the very top and very bottom of the same range is so marginal, there is really nothing for me to worry about.

The big difference is what they would drive. In terms of sound quality I agree there is not much in it.

Put a Naim up against something like an Audiolab or Arcam amp and you'll see pretty darn quickly that all amps do not sound the same.
 
I bought a new 6000A a couple of months back after returning from actives. I find it very cable and involving and have no desire to change it. Had some dear stuff in the past too ... Schiit Ragnarok, Sugden A21a, Albarry, Art Audio, Hugo TT, Yggdrasil, Hypex, Temple audio (monos) ..... The DACs very good too ... again no urge to change. Currently using it with some Duevel planets.
 
Some amps are marginal improvements or just sound different.

A good £1k/£1.5k amp is only a little down on a good £3k amp imo, but its a lot better then a £500 amp. This is the hifi law of diminishing returns.

A cheap amp in a system and environment that suits it can sound better than an expensive amp in the same system

People hear music differently, so different people like different sound presentations

Choose your answer - all part of the mystery and wonder of hi fi
 
Some amps are marginal improvements or just sound different.

A good £1k/£1.5k amp is only a little down on a good £3k amp imo, but its a lot better then a £500 amp. This is the hifi law of diminishing returns.

A cheap amp in a system and environment that suits it can sound better than an expensive amp in the same system

People hear music differently, so different people like different sound presentations

Choose your answer - all part of the mystery and wonder of hi fi

Your comment reminds me of a Steve Guttenberg vid I saw recently where he reckons beyond £2-3k for a system and you're into realms of diminishing returns. Having never heard £20k speakers driven by a £60k amp I'm none the wiser about that. I for got a significant jump up from £800 system to £1,400 (I suspect that was mainly the speakers giving me the extra quality there but never tested)
 
I bought a new 6000A a couple of months back after returning from actives. I find it very cable and involving and have no desire to change it. Had some dear stuff in the past too ... Schiit Ragnarok, Sugden A21a, Albarry, Art Audio, Hugo TT, Yggdrasil, Hypex, Temple audio (monos) ..... The DACs very good too ... again no urge to change. Currently using it with some Duevel planets.

Useful, thanks.

Good to hear it has a decent DAC. That and a non-crappy control probably probably edges out the Music Fidelity M2si.
 
Your comment reminds me of a Steve Guttenberg vid I saw recently where he reckons beyond £2-3k for a system and you're into realms of diminishing returns. Having never heard £20k speakers driven by a £60k amp I'm none the wiser about that. I for got a significant jump up from £800 system to £1,400 (I suspect that was mainly the speakers giving me the extra quality there but never tested)
Should have stuck to making Police Academy movies.
 
Nothing can or should take the place of an audition using your own ears in your own home with whatever other components you're using. Otherwise you're relying on someone else's ears.
How I envy those that can avail of a home demo. Never going to happen to me, due to my location (west coast of Ireland) with only a couple of decent hifi stores in the country and they are over 150 miles away, so a home demo is not an option
 
They sound quite different to one another in many ways but tend to show similar traits as far as limitations go... ie the ways in which they fail to shine tend to be shared by many different amps.
Specifically power amps are where most of the subjective problems lie IMHO and also IMHO MOST amplifiers (integrated or power amps but its the power amp part with the problem usually) are inadequate. Many of the errors that SS amps make are absent from valve amps but then they have their own issues. This does not mean that only valve amps can truly deliver, amongst my fave amps are both SS and valve units, but I'd say 90% of SS amps fail by my criteria.
 
Put a Naim up against something like an Audiolab or Arcam amp and you'll see pretty darn quickly that all amps do not sound the same.

Very true, I have just replaced my 82, dual hicap/250 with an Arcam a49. It does not sound the same - it (the sound) has come to life.
 
Well, that's kind of what I'm trying to ascertain - is the reviewer deaf and should I invest more or are most people who hear significant differences tricked by level output / or confirmation biasing and should I saved my hard earned and buy a cheaper amp instead?
There may be other explanations for what is going on. The key is likely to be understanding how one group of people can state something like all competently designed amplifiers driven within their operational limits will sound the same whereas another group is saying something like all amplifiers sound different. These appear to be contradictory but are they? If they are contradictory then it would follow one group is lying. Is that likely given the numbers involved?
 
There may be other explanations for what is going on. The key is likely to be understanding how one group of people can state something like all competently designed amplifiers driven within their operational limits will sound the same whereas another group is saying something like all amplifiers sound different. These appear to be contradictory but are they? If they are contradictory then it would follow one group is lying. Is that likely given the numbers involved?
I think the way the first statement is hedged does give some wriggle-room. Jez (Arkless) post up thread seems to suggest that a significant proportion of amps are not competently designed. Perhaps one might also say that an otherwise competent design might be compromised by cost cutting to fit it to a market sector. The more you charge, the fewer compromises you have to make.

And you also have that ‘within their operational limits’ angle. It may be that an amplifier built to a tight budget operates in a narrower window of those limits, than an amp with more budget brought to bear.
 
The least noise and distortion you feed into you loudspeakers, the less noise and distortion you will hear.
 


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