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"Amps all sound the same" (more or less)

Columbo

Columbo

pfm Member
Dragging up an age old discussion (sorry); I'm in the process of choosing my next amp.

One of the amps I'm looking at is the Audiolab 6000a. The way Paul Rigby extols its virtue on YouTube got me all excited how much better my new-planned set-up would sound, like suddenly the thick velvet curtains would be lifted and a whole wave of glorious fresh sound would be hitting my eardrums. But then I read this...

https://www.soundstageaccess.com/in.../1002-audiolab-6000a-integrated-amplifier-dac

...assuming the reviewer has at least average hearing and above average "audiophile" discernment then the Audiolab sounds the same as a NAD amp at half its price - and the McIntosh, costing several times more, well the "two amps sounded very close"

Is it fair to say for speakers that don't require a mortgage to buy, in normal sized rooms at normal volumes, amps are much of a muchness, when *precisely* level matched? (like to the 0.1db)

Anyone on here level matched with preciseness and A/B tested?



(P.S. Fascinating how such tiny differences in level can make all the difference, this was when the reviewer compared the DAC performance: "...there seemed to be just a hint more presence and air through the 6000A. After much back-and-forth, I concluded that the difference was probably due to the 0.2dB difference in level -- still a very small difference, but the biggest level mismatch I’d so far had to deal with. I had two choices for level matching: +0.2dB with the 6000A compared to the C47, or +0.3dB with the C47 compared with the 6000A. I found that whichever DAC was playing at the slightly higher volume was the one that created the perception of more air in women’s voices.")
 
This is one of those, “how fussy are you”, arguments :). Given your normal average loudspeaker and normal average room, and if the loudspeaker is not a fussy load, of any kind, then to similar class A B amplifiers will probably sound similar but not identical. In my experience all amplifiers sound different, and obviously if you venture into different amplifier classes, or even into valves et cetera, then there are large differences. Money matters in a well designed amplifier and the insides, the quality of the transformer, the capacitors, and the circuit design is all going to make a difference, but there are far far greater differences to be heard from loudspeakers, cartridges, record decks, and et cetera. I would think I would question anybody who cannot hear the difference between a Mac and some of the other designs that you mention however, since the Mac has such a distinctive sound in my experience. The best thing of course is for you to have a home demonstration and decide for yourself.
 
Rockmeister said:
The best thing of course is for you to have a home demonstration and decide for yourself.
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The best thing would be for vendors or reviewers to conduct properly run blind tests with a variety of amps and source material, to tell us whether a difference is audible, and if so, get the listeners to report on what differences they heard :)

Tim
 
Rockmeister said:
This is one of those, “how fussy are you”, arguments :). Given your normal average loudspeaker and normal average room, and if the loudspeaker is not a fussy load, of any kind, then to similar class a B amplifiers will probably sound similar but not identical. In my experience all amplifiers sound different and obviously if you venture into different amplifier classes, or even into valves et cetera then there are large differences. Money matters in a well designed amplifier and the insides, the quality of the transformer, the capacitors, and the circuit design is all going to make a difference, but there are far far greater differences to be heard from loudspeakers cartridges record decks, and et cetera.I would think I would question anybody who cannot hear the difference between a Mac and some of the other designs that you mention however, since the Mac has such a distinctive sound in my experience. The best thing of course is for you to have a home demonstration and decide for yourself.
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I kind of agree and remember when that pfm blind test was done years ago putting something like a 72/hi cap/135s against an (unserviced) Nait. The outcome was some people could tell a difference and some people preferred each.
It was a triumph for the subjectivist. Me I just thought, if the difference between the very top and very bottom of the same range is so marginal, there is really nothing for me to worry about.
 
If only.

The other half - best judge by far as she knows nothing of how I tinker - would beg to disagree, on a very large scale.
 
Joe Hutch said:
Nothing can or should take the place of an audition using your own ears in your own home with whatever other components you're using. Otherwise you're relying on someone else's ears.
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It's for this reason I'm likely going to buy a couple of amps, one for ~£200-300 and another £600-1000 and do a shootout (then send the loser back). Super curious to hear for myself how much is reviewer hyperbole and what the degree of difference is, if any. Guess I'll need to get a more precise sound meter an all.
 
First, choose your loudspeakers and have them in your room. :)

An 'easy' speaker that doesn't require much power and has a convenient input impedance may well be happy with more choices of amp than a speaker that is as efficient as a housebrick and demands huge out of phase currents.

Then *in your room* play the kind of music you like at the levels you want, applying the above awareness. Failing that, be guided by the above being relevant.
 
Columbo said:
It's for this reason I'm likely going to buy a couple of amps, one for ~£200-300 and another £600-1000 and do a shootout (then send the loser back). Super curious to hear for myself how much is reviewer hyperbole and what the degree of difference is, if any. Guess I'll need to get a more precise sound meter an all.
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I got my fingers burned (not literally) by buying a fairly expensive integrated which had attracted rave reviews, and was highly discounted. It sounded awful. Fortunately the dealer took pity on me and gave me a full refund.
 
I think it's ultimately the room that kind of chooses the speakers and the speakers that kind of choose the amp. Other things determine what choices you throw and what you decide on.

Never heard two amps that sounded the same, all else being equal.
 
They must sound different as my other half accused me of buying remastered disks after I installed my new pre /power combo*


*this was not long after the minor upset to the marital bliss due to the new cable count :)
 
many modest amps can sound fantastic , just read all the comments about temple audio amps or some class d amps . its a credit to the audiolab that it can compete with higher amps . just buy one and evaluate it for yourself
 
The 6000 series is good value for money, a friend had a complete 6000 series system.

Nothing wrong with them, the streamer and CD Transport are also pretty good sources and if you have a problem IAG will sort it without hassle, the backup is good.

As above, try it.

If buying new just return it if it’s not for you. If buying second hand sell it on if not for you. Shouldn’t lose too much money depending what you paid you might get your money back.

Good luck.
 
Caliente said:
So why not just buy the NAD if they are still available?
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Well, that's kind of what I'm trying to ascertain - is the reviewer deaf and should I invest more or are most people who hear significant differences tricked by level output / or confirmation biasing and should I saved my hard earned and buy a cheaper amp instead? Of course, the easy answer is to test for myself which is the plan. But curious about other people's experiences - though my guess is very few people do precise level matched testing (to within 0.1db)? I dunno. Either way, typing all this nonsense saves me from having to do actual work right now :)
 
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