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American prog

kasperhauser said:
edit: visual evidence suggests Heart either really were prog, or they found some nice bargains at Yes' yard sale:
4721326237_79fbdb7deb.jpg
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Late to the thread, but thanks for the laugh. They really missed an opportunity to put a foil wrapped cucumber down those pants to excite the ladies.
 
stephen bennett said:
True.

But I find it hard to believe anyone can think that 'Close to the Edge' is not one of the most amazing and innovative albums of all time. It makes their early work seem trite by comparison and was their real breakthrough LP.

Stephen
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It's technically brilliant but by the time you get to that album they'd polished all their rough edges off and it lacks 'grit' to offset all the cleverness. Kaye and Banks delivered it in spades, Wakeman and Howe, good as they are, couldn't do anything other than polished. It makes for a very unengaging listen as they take us through a journey into arch cleverness with the 'meh' pedal pushed to the floor.

Along with "Selling England by the Pound" it sort of marked the transition from "Progressive Rock" to a cartoonish and anodyne "Prog" that confused an ability to rock out in 13/8 with true innovation.
 
sean99 said:
Late to the thread, but thanks for the laugh. They really missed an opportunity to put a foil wrapped cucumber down those pants to excite the ladies.
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Oh, if only. And seeing as the one on the left is named Nancy, that could really have fundamentally changed the lives of a large swath post-pubescent dudes (not to mention Cameron Crowe).
 
kasperhauser said:
Oh, if only. And seeing as the one on the left is named Nancy, that could really have fundamentally changed the lives of a large swath post-pubescent dudes (not to mention Cameron Crowe).
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With prog rock and hair metal I can't tell the men from the women. From now on I'll refer to it as androgynous rock.
 
kasperhauser said:
Oh, if only. And seeing as the one on the left is named Nancy, that could really have fundamentally changed the lives of a large swath post-pubescent dudes (not to mention Cameron Crowe).
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So its Nancy Pants and Fancy Pants. Ahh.



Maybe I should lie down.
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Chicago. Or maybe not surprised as no one ever mentions them due to an international law prohibiting it. But I'd make a case for their first four or five albums being prog. Quite like Yes in places. But with horns...
 
moomaloo said:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Chicago. Or maybe not surprised as no one ever mentions them due to an international law prohibiting it. But I'd make a case for their first four or five albums being prog. Quite like Yes in places. But with horns...
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They get slagged off as "Jazz Rock".
 
stephen bennett said:
True.

But I find it hard to believe anyone can think that 'Close to the Edge' is not one of the most amazing and innovative albums of all time. It makes their early work seem trite by comparison and was their real breakthrough LP.

Stephen
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Close to the edge was when my very worst fears were realised. From being a halfway decent band, they had fully metamorphised into a musical mutual masturbation collective.

In 1974, I managed to see Yes & Dr. Feelgood in that London on the same weekend.

The stuff I had seen Yes doing was just irrelevant. The stuff going down in the pubs was the real deal.

Chris
 
Seeker_UK said:
It's technically brilliant but by the time you get to that album they'd polished all their rough edges off and it lacks 'grit' to offset all the cleverness. Kaye and Banks delivered it in spades, Wakeman and Howe, good as they are, couldn't do anything other than polished. It makes for a very unengaging listen as they take us through a journey into arch cleverness with the 'meh' pedal pushed to the floor.

Along with "Selling England by the Pound" it sort of marked the transition from "Progressive Rock" to a cartoonish and anodyne "Prog" that confused an ability to rock out in 13/8 with true innovation.
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It's all a matter of taste isn't it?

The triumvirate of 'Close to the edge,'Topographic oceans' and 'Relayer' contain some on my favourite Yes music. While I do like the earlier stuff (especially 'Yes') it's bitty in execution. I'm also fond of Banks' guitar playing and Kaye's Organ (oh err) but neither could have handled the sonic or technical complexity of the later music. In a similar fashion, Moraz brought Jazz fusion and south American percussion into the mix - 'Relayer' is as exciting as it gets for me. Three chords played loud may be enough for some., but it's not for me.

Howe is a superb bluegrass guitarist, Wakeman a classical pianist. Dropping them into Yes was genius IMHO. Howe's pedal steel work on Topographic is totally original. There's nothing else out there then or now like side three of that album.

As for "Selling England by the Pound" - well, we'll have to disagree again. :D

Stephen
 
Paul Stump, in his excellent book about prog 'The Music's All That Matters' makes the point that Wakeman's (admitted) role in Yes was often to stitch the ideas of four other guys together so you couldn't hear the join. It's a remarkable skill as an arranger and probably honed on the fly as a session player, but I've never enjoyed much of his actual playing. That said, Close to the Edge is probably his best moment with Yes. I can't be objective about Relayer for reasons unconnected to the music itself, but Topographic Oceans actually made me angry.

Back to the OP, I think the concept of 'Amercian Prog' is slightly flawed because what is now largely understood as prog came overwhelmingly out of European influences on 60s pop. Even the overtly Jazz oriented groups (I'm thinking of the Canterbury bands mostly) had roots in English pastoralism. Although America did go the same way, much of the source material was radically different. I know it's not that simple, but I think the progressive music that came out of Europe sounded like it did because it came out of Europe and it's American influences were already predigested.
 
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