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Alec Baldwin

Discussion in 'off topic' started by matt j, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity

    Commercial pressure


    Learned helplessness

    Peer pressure

    Anymore contributory factors?
  2. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    I took the article to mean that the unions had walked off the film set because of safety issues and and that non-unionised and untrained people had taken over their jobs arguably leading to the tragedy. Can’t see how that is blaming the unions for the death tbh. What are they being blamed for? Withdrawing their Labour as a legitimate protest? There are plenty of other similar reports online, I just picked the Mail because it was the first that came up. I can’t see anything contentious about their reporting in this instance.
  3. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Booyakashah, check out my avatar...

    You need to manage blank ammunition as carefully as live ammo.
    eternumviti and mansr like this.
  4. graystoke4

    graystoke4 pfm Member

    Hi, what can you say, i'm not a fan of the Baldwin brothers, to bolshie and up their own arses, the last time i heard of Alec, he was under arrest for hitting a woman paparazzi, But in this case my hart goes out to him, as tony l, pointed out he will have to live with this for the rest of his life, also he will never get rid of this demon,
    Del monaco likes this.
  5. GruntPuppy

    GruntPuppy pfm Member

    Actually no. It was a piece of wadding from a blank round that pierced the heart. Brandon Lee was offered the use of a bullet proof vest before filming the scene, but declined. There are generally no "remnants" left in the barrel of a gun after firing a live round.
  6. GruntPuppy

    GruntPuppy pfm Member

    Depends on the period of the movie.
  7. GruntPuppy

    GruntPuppy pfm Member

    One of those dramatic shots "to camera." It's not uncommon for the same event to be filmed multiple times from multiple angles.
  8. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    One thing I don't understand after reading various reports: does "cold gun" mean there is no ammunition in the gun, real or blank, or does it mean it only contains blanks?
    But to go through two people, I bet anything that there were "real" cartridges on or around the set and one was forgotten inside the gun.
  9. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    As producer, he faces possible jail time if he gun supervision was unqualified
  10. GruntPuppy

    GruntPuppy pfm Member

    At the end of the day, a gun is a killing weapon. It's your responsibility to check that pulling the trigger isn't going to result in someone's death. While there are supposed to be specialists to ensure the safety of everyone on the filmset, there's only one person pulling the trigger.

    It looks like there were 3 issues here - firstly the armourer, who by her own admission lacks experience loading at least one of the 3 guns available for shooting the scene with live rounds, and secondly the chain of responsibility was broken when the first assistant director picked one of these guns up, handed it to the actor and declared it "cold" - safe to use for filming, whether unloaded or loaded with blanks - without actually checking it. There should have been no-one handling the weapon between the armourer and the actor. The third issue is that there were live rounds on the set in the first place - there's absolutely no reason for them to be there.

    News reports are saying that according to the search warrant that was acted upon, a single gun and cartridge were removed from the scene. It looks like the cinematographer was the first in the bullet path, getting hit by a bullet that penetrated her chest, exited and hit the director in the shoulder.

    It's worth noting that some reports say that there was an issue the day before the fatal shooting, where a gun handed to Alec Baldwin's stunt double for a scene was declared "cold" and live rounds were discharged. To my way of thinking, the armourer should have been dismissed for gross negligence at that point, and a review of safety carried out.

    There should be no live rounds on a film set, there should have been strict protocols in place to guarantee safety that should have been kept to, but to shoot someone and say "it was someone else's job to make sure it was safe" is as bad to me as saying "I was only following orders." Personally I'd want to check the gun myself, or see it checked and verified in front of me as being safe to use.
  11. GruntPuppy

    GruntPuppy pfm Member

    It's worth pointing out that no reports show the armourer as walking off set, so although it's a clear indication that there were issues with safety on set, it's not the cause of the issues that lead to one death and one serious injury.
    AndyU likes this.
  12. david ellwood

    david ellwood Kirabosi Kognoscente

    Well if it’s a western it presumably would be set between 1800-1900 so I suppose the last 10 years of the west might have seen some use of nitro in sidearms.
  13. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    Sounds like budgets were tight and corners cut. Perhaps historical authenticity wasn’t a priority either.
  14. Weekender

    Weekender pfm Member

    I was quoting the BBC report.
    This from Wiki about the Lee incident :
    "In the film shoot preceding the fatal scene, the prop gun (which was a real revolver) was loaded with improperly-made dummy rounds, improvised from live cartridges that had the powder charges removed by the special effects crew, so in close-ups the revolver would show normal-looking ammunition. However, the crew neglected to remove the primers from the cartridges, and at some point before the fatal event, one of the rounds had been fired. Although there were no powder charges, the energy from the ignited primer was enough to separate the bullet from the casing and push it part-way into the gun barrel, where it got stuck — a dangerous condition known as a squib load. During the fatal scene, which called for the revolver to be fired at Lee from a distance of 3.6–4.5 meters (12–15 ft), the dummy cartridges were replaced with blank rounds, which contained a powder charge and the primer, but no solid bullet, allowing the gun to be fired with sound and flash effects without the risk of an actual projectile. However, the gun was not properly checked and cleared before the blank was fired, and the dummy bullet previously lodged in the barrel was then propelled forward by the blank's propellant and shot out the muzzle with almost the same force as if the round were live, striking Lee in the abdomen."

    My bold; sounds more like a bullet than wadding to me.
    Darren likes this.
  15. GruntPuppy

    GruntPuppy pfm Member

    It's set in the 1880's, so plenty of combined cartridge sidearms from the civil war available.

    Historical accuracy not really an issue, I think - but in terms of budget restrictions and safety, it looks like they were running on a shoestring:
  16. GruntPuppy

    GruntPuppy pfm Member

    Totally contradicts 2 biographies of him that I've read, but not the first time that a biographer will have been misinformed, I suppose. Although news reports at the time reported the wound was caused by card wadding, it doesn't surprise me that a squib load is given as the issue by Wiki - it's the obvious thing to look for in a case like this.
    Weekender likes this.
  17. Eyebroughty

    Eyebroughty JohnC

    Live rounds should never be on any filmset or anywhere else where people are around in numbers.

    I would suggest the following exceptions where police, military, gun ranges, clay pigeon and grouse moors are involved and hopefully those are all well regulated.

    There are plenty ways you can make a gunshot look real without using blanks as they have dangers as well.

    This strive to try and show realism usually ends in trouble and surely will again, be it with guns, cars, explosives or other props, it has become part of todays culture so I doubt anything will change.
  18. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Booyakashah, check out my avatar...

    C'mon. Stanley was OK as was the one that made pianos.
    Darren and Barrymagrec like this.
  19. Weekender

    Weekender pfm Member

    You could edit the Wiki entry. ;)
    Though the linked article appears to quote court documents:
  20. Del monaco

    Del monaco Del Monaco

    No one deserves this. My heart goes out to the victim/s of this tragedy but Baldwin will suffer. So traumatising for all.
    GruntPuppy likes this.

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