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Alec Baldwin

Discussion in 'off topic' started by matt j, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. myles

    myles Intentionally left blank

    In the film industry the thing is a prop - no-one would expect it has a live round any more then they'd expect families to be living in the false front sets they are working in, or that a TARDIS will actually take you to another place or time. Something terrible happened here that went way outside the normal safety processes.
     
    Rob998, Guinnless, Fatmarley and 2 others like this.
  2. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    I hear reports there were concerns about safety corners being cut on set, so perhaps not all protocols were followed. But having said that, and not knowing anything about how these things work, I wonder whether actors, on a live set, would be expected to check for themselves. I presume they are ‘in character’ and distracting them from the role might be a no-no. So I’d not be surprised to learn that normal practice on set is for the prop person to do the checks, and be relied on for that.
     
    Tony Lockhart likes this.
  3. tqineil

    tqineil Ubi fides ibi lux et robur

    I’ve some recent experience in film production and there are strict rules about using licensed Armourers in the industry when prop weapons are used. I imagine someone has seriously messed up here or it’s a criminal matter…most of the effects are achieved in post production quite easily.
    I can’t see AB recovering from something like this, regardless of where the fault lies
     
    Tony Lockhart likes this.
  4. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    In Ireland anyway if you’re filming with any kind of firearms you need a firearms expert on set. I gather there’d been complaints during the shoot about corner cutting, maybe this was one of them. Since Baldwin was producing as well as starring it’s not looking good for him.
     
  5. david ellwood

    david ellwood Kirabosi Kognoscente

    There is always the possibility of a malicious nutter being involved.
     
    Fatmarley likes this.
  6. Del monaco

    Del monaco Del Monaco

    Surely it would not be up to the actor to check.Many would t know how. There are teams around actors whose job it is to check and double check these issues according to strict guidelines I presume. That’s what they are paid to do.you couldn’t expect an actor to check a semi automatic etc. Unless they were experts in firearms and carried appropriate safety certs or qualifications. You would not blame Vic Morrow for not checking the helicopter etc.on that infamous Twighlight Zone shot? There are people and protocols who look after such matters. And there’s always cost cutting on films but it’s unusual for Thais to happen around safety issues.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  7. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    Did you mean ‘would not’ instead of ‘would yet’?
     
    Del monaco likes this.
  8. myles

    myles Intentionally left blank

    I'm sure he did.
     
  9. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity

    Surely you’ve seen, oh I dunno, Bond pointing the gun at the camera?

    [​IMG]
     
    myles likes this.
  10. myles

    myles Intentionally left blank

    Yeah, and look what happens there!
     
  11. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    It is the job of the Armourer to check all weapons. Something like a Colt revolver is easy to verify as nothing is chambered, a Winchester is a lot harder. The snag is that a real close up of a revolver would show the blanks. When you see a revolver being emptied or loaded in a film, you often see complete bullets, are these dummies?
     
  12. myles

    myles Intentionally left blank

    You'd bloody hope they were dummies.
     
  13. Bananahead

    Bananahead pfm Member

    Why is this thread titled Alec Baldwin instead of Halyna Hutchins?
     
  14. zippy

    zippy pfm Member

    It's basically just a chain of errors - a 'live fire capable' gun shouldn't have been there in the first place, the props man should have checked that it wasn't live rather than just hand it on, Baldwin should have checked it, and as you say he should never have pointed it at someone even if he believed it to be only a prop.
     
    Tony Lockhart likes this.
  15. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    If the script calls for a shot with the gun pointed at the viewer, then the gun has to be pointed at the camera and therefore also at the camera operators.

    We’ve covered reasons why Baldwin (the actor) might not have been expected/required to check it himself. Which is not to excuse Baldwin (the producer) if safety provisions were short-circuited.
     
  16. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity

    Yep. Always a chain of events, and any one person in the chain could have stopped it.

    That is a core part of Human Factors training in aviation. Training courses often use the iceberg diagram to show that the one incident that results in a crash was preceded by dozens of near misses. That seems to be emerging here too.
     
  17. notaclue

    notaclue pfm Member

    Useful US legal opinion. Likely negligent or possibly reckless, but not an accident.

     
    PhilofCas likes this.
  18. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Because he's famous, and before yesterday most of us knew who he was. Not so Halyna Hutchins, even less so the other person hurt. I'd be very surprised if you or anyone else here knew their name without looking it up. Me? I think it was a man. Beyond that, no idea. So Alec Baldwin it is.
     
    miktec, Caledon1297 and Joe Hutch like this.
  19. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    According to the Daily Mail ..

    “Unionised workers had walked off the set hours before the fatal shooting, after they complained about long hours, shoddy conditions and another safety incident days earlier involving 'two misfires' of a prop weapon. A source said an as-yet unnamed prop master who oversaw the gun had 'just been brought in' to replace the workers who had left. ”
     
  20. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    A gun that can fire blanks is a real gun and can also fire live rounds. In this day and age there is no reason why the camera operator really had to be in the way, just that nobody has bothered to make suitable remote control cinema cameras.
     

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