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Alec Baldwin

Discussion in 'off topic' started by matt j, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. Sonority

    Sonority pfm Member

    I could be wrong, but how I read it was that the previous (blank) round did not eject correctly and was in the actual barrel (I stress its how I read it).
    When next blank was fired, said empty cartridge essentially became a bullett.
    Absolutely tragic.
  2. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    Yes but twice in a row ?
  3. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    This theory would only be viable if the gun was a semi-automatic surely? And if it was a western they were presumably using revolvers. Also, would an empty cartridge actually fit into the barrel? Perhaps if it was partly crushed, or something? Whatever it was seems to have had the force to go through two people, and would a blank have such a massive charge of powder?
    Maybe before the scene was shot someone was shooting at tin cans and by a chain of errors and negligence a "real" round remained in the gun? There is certainly something morbid about this curiosity, but I admit to wondering what actually happened. I bet the insurers of the film are not sleeping well.
  4. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    Blanks are notoriously dangerous things, as we had drummed into us, and demonstrated, at CCF.

    There are no shortcuts to firearms drill when you are handling live weapons, or even dummy ones. This is, or should be, de rigeur on filmsets and reenactment, as it certainly was in films made here such as Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers. This seems like a bizarre, awful tragedy. What an awful thing to happen. I certainly feel for Baldwin, poor man.
    Graham B likes this.
  5. Sonority

    Sonority pfm Member

    I have not read that two rounds were fired - so perhaps through/through.
    However it happened, for sure it will be found.
    Still an absolute tragedy.
    I think this may see an end to even blanks being used - CGI will take its place.
  6. wylton

    wylton Naim and Mana member

    It's beyond belief especially when you consider that the effects of the gun can be achieved with CGI. Clearly safety protocols were not being followed; a tragedy that should never have happened and my heart goes out to all concerned.
  7. Rob998

    Rob998 Scimmia Nordoccidentale

    All the references to CGI being made, yes it can achieve amazing results, but good CGI is not cheap, contrary to popular belief. In a western where there are potentially thousands of rounds being discharged, it’s far cheaper to use blanks.

    Baldwin isn’t the box office draw he used to be, I doubt this movie had anything more than a basic CGI budget.
  8. wylton

    wylton Naim and Mana member

    Yes, that's a fair comment, but I guess things will change now. As you say, when you consider the many thousands of rounds fired compared to how many accidents have occurred.
  9. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    The victim was the director of photography so by definition she would have been in the way.
    deanf likes this.
  10. linnfomaniac83

    linnfomaniac83 I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!

    I don’t know why they aren’t doing already, if you want a real flash from a gun, that could be done with a specially designed prop, ie something that lacks a barrel that can fire a projectile. You could use gas and a spark to create the flash… Colin furze has achieved that in his garage ffs.

    As for capturing the real sound, you wouldn’t do that on set, you’d capture the sound under controlled conditions and dub it in in post production.

    As said above, this is just incomprehensible, especially given the fact that it’s not the first time such an incident has occurred.
  11. Jezzer

    Jezzer eats shoots and leaves

    The John Wick films mostly use CGI. Much of Extraction was filmed in India where even BB guns and replicas are banned. So they used rubber prop guns and CGI for the nozzle flashes.

    There’s absolutely no need for blanks to be fired in films these days.
  12. Hook

    Hook Blackbeard's former bo'sun.

    Reads like a plot from Midsomer Murders. What an f’d up way to die. Hope they figure out what happened.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  13. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    The actors reaction and the recoil, which is what the close up was meant to capture, are hard to do with CGI

    I don't see why 50% of the news slot has to be what is hopefully an unfortunate accident
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  14. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity

    From the BBC:

    “The gun that actor Alec Baldwin fired on set, killing a woman, was handed to him by an assistant director who told him it was safe, court records show.
    The unnamed director did not know the prop contained live ammunition and indicated it was unloaded by shouting "cold gun!", the records say.“

    Whenever you are handed a weapon, YOU ensure it is safe. Not your mum, not your dad, not your director. You.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
    IanW, GruntPuppy, Darren L and 2 others like this.
  15. myles

    myles Intentionally left blank

    Tony, this is the movies not the military. I assume there would never be reason for a live round to be in a 'prop' gun on set so Baldwin would be more likely to see a flag pop out of the barrel with 'BANG' written on it.
    If I remember correctly you are ex mil like myself and the idea of making a weapon handed to you safe, 'full unload followed by partial load', is ingrained in our souls! Not in the movies however, and especially not by the actor I'd imagine.
    Kraus, RJohan and Ian G like this.
  16. david ellwood

    david ellwood Kirabosi Kognoscente

    If it’s a western they should have been using black powder
  17. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity

    At the very least you’d expect to be shown it’s empty. It’s not just the military, civilian shooting clubs have these rules too.
    Eyebroughty likes this.
  18. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    Yes, I remember from a rifle club in the mid-60s that the rule was to always leave the breech open when not actually firing. But on a film set, I doubt Baldwin would be expected to take the gun, unload it, check that every round was indeed a blank, and then re-load it. He, in fact anyone, would assume there were no "real" bullets anywhere in the vicinity. My bet is that someone had been using the gun with live ammunition for shooting at targets while not working and that somehow whoever re-loaded the revolver (?) with blanks missed the fact that one of the cartridges was a live one that was already there. With people doing things while talking on cellphones, which is about 75% of the time these days, this could easily happen. I don't believe "wadding" could go through two people.
  19. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity

    Well, if you don’t carry out basic safety checks, eventually someone gets shot, it really is as simple as that.
    Guns and explosives work as advertised, and there’s no dodging them, no second chance.
    docstocker, IanW and Eyebroughty like this.
  20. Eyebroughty

    Eyebroughty JohnC

    Why would the shot hit a director and not another actor, surely in the movies you pretend to shoot at the other actor?

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