ahead of their time? or just plain out there?

[Tony L]

It would be interesting to know the respective ages of posters in this thread, as I'm fairly sure that we generally get less radical as we age.

I’m 41 on Sunday. My theory is that peoples taste changes largely due to laziness, many people who once had a firm finger on the pulse seem to relax and fall into what I see as soft and bland music. The current trend of truly insipid female singer-songwriters carefully targeted at middle aged men seems to highlight this perfectly. I have no interest whatsoever in this kind of music and make the effort to find out who is pushing the boundaries. As I’ve grown older my taste has definitely broadened, and I’ve found whole new genres to explore. There is far too much good music out there to accept blandness.

But I am no longer an idealistic youth, and while I still like most of the music of my youth, I have learned to appreciate the worth of true virtuosity as well.

Virtuosity is a pretty vague term IMHO – if I were forced to name some true virtuosos in the rock field I’d pick the likes of Amon Düül II or Can as both were able to play as a totally organic, seamless whole whilst producing music of absolutely stunning originality. Going ‘widdle widdle widdle’ really fast on a guitar is a) not very hard to do, and b) has very little intrinsic value. It is unwise to assume those who choose not to do it can’t! The goal is to create something truly new and to do exactly what is needed to realise the idea. No more and no less. Musical history is written about the originators, not the copyists.

Anyone here who likes classical music must agree with me by definition, as classical musicians spend their time 'polishing', (although I prefer the term 'interpreting'), music which has been done numerous times before.

Classical music has no real connection to any other musical form, by its nature it is interpreted and reproduced, almost every other form is created by the musicians playing it. There is no original, just a written draft, there is no improvisation, just rules. The skills needed to play it are completely different to rock or jazz, which is why IMHO people who are vastly skilled at one almost always stink at the other. Interpretation and improvisation are radically different skills.

Tony.

 

[RickyC6]

Originally posted by Mullardman
I'm fairly sure that we generally get less radical as we age.
Mull

Try telling that to John Peel!

Rich

 

[Paul L]

"

Originally posted by Tony L
I’m 41 on Sunday. My theory is that peoples taste changes largely due to laziness, many people who once had a firm finger on the pulse seem to relax and fall into what I see as soft and bland music."

Tony, I'm afraid part f me thinks you are right and part of me thinks your theory is bollocks. This could turn Freudian and I'm no expert but whilst there are certain emotional and behavioural patterns through the various stages of life meaning, IMHO, that we do mellow out, our youthful angst subsides etc, we did not necessarily start with the angst music persona in the first place.

I have friends who have loved 50's and 60's rock and roll from a young age and haven't changed, others who loved and played classical from childhood and are still fanatical about it. Yes, I like my polished smooth music, also female-singer music but I have only learned to appreciate much of the more complex music in more recent years. If anything we want to be intellectually stimulated too as we get older, don't you think?

"Virtuosity is a pretty vague term IMHO – Going ‘widdle widdle widdle’ really fast on a guitar is a) not very hard to do, and b) has very little intrinsic value."

Agree entirely! LOL, I had not heard it put like that before!

"Musical history is written about the originators, not the copyists. "

Agree but it doesn't stop us from liking it better by someone else, hearing it plagiarised to a style we like more or just plain not liking some music even if it is original. The Sex Pistols were original for f**ks sake but I'd have shot the whole punk scene if I could. I am not joking. Complete and utter shite to me and my views have not changed. when Johny Rancid, Sid Ferocious (as Freddie Mercury famously called him in a corridor meeting of EMI) and the other stooges broke through I was 12 (40 now btw). I find more intrinsic value in a neglected bathroom. Of course, I do recognise it woke everybody up from ridiculous platform shoes, flares and twenty minute drum/guitar/keyboards/passing wind solos.

Likewise as soon as I hear rap I look over my shoulder expecting to be mugged. And as soon as rap is blended into something I might be okay with then I have become the generation I used to think my parents were.

Question then Tony - as a parent of a daughter when I hear "Yo, slap my bitch up, fold the ho over" or whatever illiterate Yank and Brit kids are listening to now I want to punch their lights out. But presumably, you can respect it as original, on the leading edge, focusing on breaking new ground, unpolished, not lazy or bland....?

Paul

 

[sideshowbob]

I'll be 40 next March and have always liked "horrible noise" (as Lester Bangs described his music taste). Conservatism when it comes to music choice has nothing to do with age, IME, most of my musical heroes are older than me, madder than me, and far more intellectually and musically daring than the average 18 year old "rebel".

I'm looking forward to being a scary heroin snorting pensioner, personally.

Edit: Can I be the first to crawl to The Esteemed Leader and say happy birthday for Sunday, Tony?

-- Ian

 

[Tony L]

The Sex Pistols were original for f**ks sake but I'd have shot the whole punk scene if I could. I am not joking. Complete and utter shite to me and my views have not changed.

I bought the Pistols stuff at the time and still really rate it. Surprisingly good little rock ‘n’ roll tunes IMHO. I remember having to hide my Pistols records under the carpet in my bedroom as my reactionary Tory mother would have flung them out (obviously wrapped in something so the neighbours didn’t see). This is what music bought by kids should do!

Question then Tony - as a parent of a daughter when I hear "Yo, slap my bitch up, fold the ho over" or whatever illiterate Yank and Brit kids are listening to now I want to punch their lights out. But presumably, you can respect it as original, on the leading edge, focusing on breaking new ground, unpolished, not lazy or bland....?

I’m no expert on rap, but I suspect much of it is given a bad press by those who fail to see the irony and humour in many of the lyrics, Eminem being a prime example. The guy is IMHO hysterically funny and only the truly slow-witted would take his lyrics at face value. Its pure comic book bad taste. Rap is like any other musical form, there is good and bad – as a parent you couldn’t possibly argue about the lyrical content of say Grandmaster Flash’s The Message or White Lines or records by Disposable Heroes or JC001 (I’m not a rap fan so hard pushed to come out with any more recent examples). There has always been music with dodgy lyrics, it certainly didn't happen afresh with rap - as an example some heavy metal is just as sexist and purile as the worst of rap. There is good and bad in every genre.

I'll be 40 next March and have always liked "horrible noise" (as Lester Bangs described his music taste). Conservatism when it comes to music choice has nothing to do with age, IME, most of my musical heroes are older than me, madder than me, and far more intellectually and musically daring than the average 18 year old "rebel".

Agree 100%. I have spent many years researching horrible noise makers, and there are still many out there I haven’t discovered yet.

Tony.

 

[Paul L]

Happy Birthday for Sunday tony! I was bought a guitar I asked for, treated myself to speakers and had a great supper with very nice female company.

Hope yours is is as enjoyable!

 

[Tony L]

I was bought a guitar I asked for, treated myself to speakers and had a great supper with very nice female company.

Hope yours is is as enjoyable!

Thanks - I’m happy with my current speakers though free guitars and female company are always welcome!

Tony.

 

[joel]

Originally posted by sideshowbob

I'm looking forward to being a scary heroin snorting pensioner, personally.

I don't understand. What do you mean by "looking forward"

---------------
edited to add:
Happy Birthday Tony!