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Advice on valve amps

jamwat

jamwat

pfm Member
Hey All,

I'm looking into selling my avondale / naim gear and going into valves.

Which valve amps are worth while looking into ?

I'm looking into an integrated in the region of £2-3k ish.

Using KEF reference 201 speakers so the amp must besuitable for these speakers

Any advice would be appreciated because I have no or very little knowledge of valve amps

Thanks

Jamie
 
Why? Is there something that you don't like with your setup and if so what are you trying to achieve?

If you are going to keep the speakers then you will be better off with SS as they are not very efficient at 86dB.

According to the spec max output is 110dB (I assume at 1 meter). To reach that SPL will require an amp that can deliver 126w of unclipped power and thats not really in valve territory. So you should be look at amps that can give around 200W.

Cheers,

DV
 
DV,

nothing really wrong, just want to give some valves a try having heard some a while back.
from what you say I need to llok at speakers as well, so what type / specs should i look into ?

Jamie
 
I'm looking into valves also. Have heard a few setups recently.

Not sure you would generally listen at 110db though would you? So whilst your Kef's wouldn't be the natural choice a 40-50 watt KT88 or 6550 amp wouldn't have too much of an issue driving them.
 
it's not only efficiency that makes speakers valve friendly. you have air tight ATM-1 at classifieds at the wam, 36w/ch
 
Always try your proposed purchase with your existing speakers, don't rely on spec's. You would be surprised what works and doesn't work in combination even when the rated power of the amp and the sensitivity of the speakers say it should work. One of my valve amps sounds wonderful with isobarically loaded WB Discoveries but sounds like rubbish with more efficient (but less well acoustically damped) Spendors. So just take time and listen.
 
Even the smallest (cheapest) Audio Note integrated (Oto) betters the bigger Naim pre-/power combos. The Oto SE even more so. Both should be available within your price range if you consider used ones also.

There actually is a SE for sale in the audio markt from a gentleman from the Netherlands.
 
Look out for the ohm's tap on valve amps (usually 4, 6 and 8) and try matching this to the average impendance of your speaker too, my Martin Logans worked best on 6 ohms. As a word of warning the 300B's valve mono's I had didn't like the Logan's at all (should have known) so it is a case of matching carefully.

Cheers, Tim
 
And this rules out buying blind on the Internet unless the amp speakers are a documented good match.
 
Sounds like you'll need a powerful push-pull valved amp. like an E.A.R.. There are others rated at 60 plus watts per channel, but you should pick up the top E.A.R. integrated for your money second-hand. They're not only reliable but made/serviced near Huntingdon, Cambs.

I've found that the 4 ohm taps sound much better that the 8 into my nominally 8 ohm speakers; I imagine because the speakers prefer to see a lower impedance, as others have found this works for them, too.

I agree with the previous poster; some speakers (ProAcs, e.g.) will work with most amp's, but there are many which won't. Some KEFs were troublesome (104ABs, e.g.) but maybe yours are just insensitive with no other nasties.
 
We get a reasonable number of people wanting to change from ss to valve, and a decent integrated seems like the ideal first step to make. The only problem is that the preamp part of a £2k-£3k integrated is not particularly brilliant, ie you get a flavour of valves, but not the whole story. We used to sell Conrad Johnson, who made a brilliant integrated, the CAV 50. It was not the most powerful amp, but partnered with a pair of sensitive Triangles or J M Labs it was sublime. Audio Research still do a similar beast, but with more grunt and a slightly more forward sound than the CJ, but it lacks the posh fascia and lovely knobs that have adorned their integrateds in the past, (also called the CAV 50 I think). Both of these products are good, but being premium brands command premium prices. In the case of the CJ they are unavailable and rarely come up s/hand.

Outside of these two brands, there is BAT, but not sure if there is an importer. The good thing about CJ and ARC is that there is excellent service if you look around and parts are readily available. Outside of these, and leaving aside the myriad of Chinese built stuff, Rogue Audio is excellent. Never had a problem with it from a reliability point of view, and it sounds great. Due to certain reasons, you may have to look hard for a retailer where you can go and hear the stuff, but it is worth it. It had great initial reviews and was very cheap for what it offered. Having met Mark O`Brian, one of the founders, his enthusiasm for good gear at lowish prices means that, even with an importer`s mark up, it still offers good vfm. It is also load tolerant and may have a stab at driving your Kef`s, but I feel you would be best to change your loudspeakers. Or buy a pre-power instead.

The alternative would be to look at Prima Luna. These amps are bullet proof, ultra reliable and powerful especially the pre and power combinations. The Prologue Five power amp will give you plenty of current. We put Genalex KT88`s in ours and it sounds excellent. You really need to get out there and try a few. You should find it a really enjoyable experience and your cd`s will benefit from the warmth and richness that a good valve amp can bring.
 
I had a great pre/monoblock combo from World Audio Design. Had to build it as it all came as a kit but was quite easy as long as your not squeamish when picking up a soldering iron.

Monoblocks were running 4x EL34 at 80watts per channel and had loads of drive but sounded fantastic with rock music. Found them extremely detailed as well.

Totally regret getting rid of them and went to Naim 202/200 which lasted a month before getting the Avondales in which gave me some of what I had from the valves.

Only major downside to valves is when listening the central heating comes on. Okay in the winter but in the summer phew!!!
 
Long time no hear !. Hope you proposed move worked out, pm me if you wish, it would be good to talk !.

The other amps I have experience of are the Unison Research and Graaf models, although I believe only UR are still imported. For a long time, their S6 integrated(wooden front with silver tube cage ) was a favourite of ours. Not particularly powerful, it used EL34`s to give a very sweet sound, (as did the CJ CAV50 as opposed to ARC`s 6550`s) and whenever I hear one today I still rate it. As Triangle was brought in by the same importer, they formed a really good partnership. The old Zephyr or newer Zerius/ Antal/ Altea really worked well with good refined cabling such as Siltech.

The newer S6 ia a model that we are just about to stock, and at £3k fits in well with where you want to be, but it would struggle to drive your Kef`s. It`s sound is also at odds with your loudspeakers which do require a bit of juice to come alive. There are also the push pull amps from the same stable, the P40 with it`s posh (?) Murano glass fascia sounds less transparent and subtle than the S6 but has more power and weight.

Possibly the best thing to do is to find a combination amp/speaker that you
like and work towards it. Rough cheap sounding cables mask a lot of the subtlety and tonal variation that good valve amps can supply so make sure you use good stuff for the demonstrations that you have.
 
halvis said:
I'm looking into valves also. Have heard a few setups recently.

Not sure you would generally listen at 110db though would you? So whilst your Kef's wouldn't be the natural choice a 40-50 watt KT88 or 6550 amp wouldn't have too much of an issue driving them.
Click to expand...

Orchestral music can reach 130dB but these are short lived peaks/transients. It is these that give music its dynamics and timbre. The 110dB is the max for these speakers at 1m. If you are listening at say 10 feet away then the SPL (in open air) would drop by 10dB approx i.e. thats only a tenth. But thats only for short duration peaks.

You've got to hear it to believe it.

Cheers,

DV
 
jamwat said:
DV,

nothing really wrong, just want to give some valves a try having heard some a while back.
from what you say I need to llok at speakers as well, so what type / specs should i look into ?

Jamie
Click to expand...

You want a speaker that will work well in your room, that you like the look of and that fits your pocket. Then pair those with the right amp.

I guess you have small speakers for a reason and if that is due to a lack of space then big efficient speakers that would work well with valves would be out. The smaller the speaker with quality performance in general becomes less efficient. There are also other factors depending on the design to be addressed such as the back EMF and the need to damp the woofer.

Cheers,

DV
 
I made the move from Naim to valves recently. Main motivation was to get a poweramp that would drive my electrostatic speakers reliably (the Naim would shut down if you were too enthusiastic with the volume). I spotted an EAR 890 at a decent price and I was frankly amazed how much clearer everything had become. I've now got rid of my preamp too and I'm using a passive shunt volume control, and the increase in detail is quite remarkable. The caveat is that the EAR stuff doesn't sound much like traditional valves...
 
Either a Prima Luna pre and power

or Prologue 2 integrated and spend the money on better valves.
 
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