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Advice for my next and definitive speakers

RJohan my actual speakers are 40Hz/18kHz +/-3dB, so I see a "wtf?!" 45Hz/12 kHz (- 3 dB) (what does that mean? +/-1.5db?) on the JBL 3677? Well as I am in an apartment the sub can be a problem. And it takes room and the room itself dictates where it must be set up.
And DRSBest also advertise for a sub. I know few about that "third" speaker setup but the fact my stereo amp does not have a sub output. If you go through another amp to filter frequencies then I'll degrade the signal, won't I? Ok on the B&W 800D2 warning but I'm not sure to understand (sorry english is not my native language, I may misconstrue some of your post guys) what you said about ATCs, I can be badly surprised of how they sound so listen to them before buying? Or that before buying anything else I should leave a chance to the ATCs as I can be seduced? I'm afraid it's almost impossible in France, but with the seller if I ever find one...
Thanks!
RJohan my actual speakers are 40Hz/18kHz +/-3dB, so I see a "wtf?!" 45Hz/12 kHz (- 3 dB) (what does that mean? +/-1.5db?) on the JBL 3677? Well as I am in an apartment the sub can be a problem. And it takes room and the room itself dictates where it must be set up.
And DRSBest also advertise for a sub. I know few about that "third" speaker setup but the fact my stereo amp does not have a sub output. If you go through another amp to filter frequencies then I'll degrade the signal, won't I? Ok on the B&W 800D2 warning but I'm not sure to understand (sorry english is not my native language, I may misconstrue some of your post guys) what you said about ATCs, I can be badly surprised of how they sound so listen to them before buying? Or that before buying anything else I should leave a chance to the ATCs as I can be seduced? I'm afraid it's almost impossible in France, but with the seller if I ever find one...
Thanks!
Re subs you don’t need a big beast if you’re using a good modern one. I find it hard to listen without. If you are in an apartment it can be a good way of adding the feel of being there (bass impact) at lower volume level. I’d also agree with one of the other posters that mid bass lift can add something. Re ATC they have a very live sound. They do bass but don’t have the mid bass lift they you might be looking for when listing to rock/metal etc. If the recording has bass you'll hear it - but if the recording is poor quality they will be very revealing of this and it might not be too your taste - hence recommending try before you buy.
 
Dave***t said:
(...) Not heard the models mostly mentioned here myself, but I’d favour something that has the right kind of lower mid weight to carry off the guitar tone of Like An Everflowing Stream, and doesn’t turn Det Som Engang Var or A Blaze In The Northern Sky into static. That may well point to speakers that are generally considered on the warmer side, rather than punchy or aggressive.
Well I agree. But... All my speakers have done that before but I need to tell the whole story, it's a chain of equipments afterall. I've owned may DACs, even more CDPs, some including the famous Flea clock from here (Hi Martin C!).
And source does play a major role in our music! Few days ago I've tried a simple cheap HAT sound card for Raspberry. See it as a whole DAC, the digital side being a powerful computer, the DAC HAT just the last stage of digital to analog. Long story short this -say- 60€ combo sounded not that bad, far better than a crappy Topping D30 and maybe on par with the Project S2 Pre something which I both tried on my system. They do "static" instead of music, when I shifted to my own DAC the quite easy Immortal song "Sons of Northen Darkness" sounded just as clear as any other clean music. Other tiny DACs can't cope, no notes, guitars becoming meat mixers.
I conclude that all gear must be top notch to play metal.
And I made a mistake in only talking of speakers without mentioning my gear. You'll see that it makes sense and matches what you said in the end:
- DAC (fed by a top CD transport and top RPI based streamer) is a Twisted Pear Audio Buffalo with a class A analog stage (35W DAC!), some saying it's a tiny tiny bit on the warm side,
- amplifier is a dual mono UcD400HG HxR DC coupled, some saying it's not on the older class D cold side but... a tiny tiny bit on the warm side,
- then the JBL 4313B (one of Greg Timber's design) being super neutral, top mid bass on these.
Night Of The Blasphemy, from Behexen, sounds splendid! Un-listenable if you swap the DAC or the amp out.
Let's then state in my case DAC and amp are better than the speakers (and I do really think so), hence the "I want more" and better speakers in all points. And that allows me in the same neutral dynamic sounding speakers search as the DAC/amp provide that supposed touch of weight in bottom. And I can even add a bit of bass with the parametric EQ in the RPi. (JBL 3677 are back in the race?)

Quoting DRSBest for going on:
DRSBest said:
(...) ATC they have a very live sound. They do bass but don’t have the mid bass lift you might be looking for when listing to rock/metal etc. If the recording has bass you'll hear it - but if the recording is poor quality they will be very revealing of this and it might not be too your taste - hence recommending try before you buy.
That is exactly how I would describe my current speakers. Of less quality for sure but the same. Tracks without bass sound without, but heavy bass track you wonder if someone plugged back the woofers. They are "not", no real sound by themselves, just not "the best". But damn good. And then you discover that many speakers do "fake" bass. And your favourite track don't have any bass at all, it was a lie from your cheap speakers! Take again that Behexen album, heavy load of bass on it I've never heard before on this record! If the previous statements about my gear with a tiny touch of mid bass/bass warmth are true, then it can be the perfect match. Don't get me wrong about my tiny JBLs, it's still missing some bass volume/impact on drum pedal, they are just what they are and bass rolls off quite quickly. They are what I consider as the "that's it, that's what I like to hear, now I have speakers reference I just need to find better with the same "sound"".

Go there, try, listen would be best. But I can't and that's where your experience guys is invaluable.
Anyway, thanks all for sharing, that's an real effort to try to figure out other's views.
Experience is a candle that illuminates the wearer. Only, sadly.
 
In order to get real bass depth/presence from ATCs, you’d need to spend a lot. Whilst the small-to-medium ATCs — SCM40s and 50s — are superb at what they do, they won’t give you the low-frequency excitement that the bigger ones can.

(A couple of years ago I had the 40s on home demo for a fortnight and ended up buying the 50s second hand. After living with the 50s for 18 months I moved on to the JBLs — see my post above.)
 
Do you mind my asking the size of your room? IIRC Wilmslow audio states something like SCM50 for small room and 100 for bigger ones. BTW, seems many roads brings back to JBL for bigger guns. And once I've been said Arry 1400 are also fine...
List for now: big Klipschs (sounds like an air leak!), ATCs and JBLs. Will try to find some to listen to.
 
Do you mind my asking the size of your room? IIRC Wilmslow audio states something like SCM50 for small room and 100 for bigger ones. BTW, seems many roads brings back to JBL for bigger guns. And once I've been said Arry 1400 are also fine...
List for now: big Klipschs (sounds like an air leak!), ATCs and JBLs. Will try to find some to listen to.

The room's 5 x 5.5m. In one side wall there's a 2m-wide opening into another large room.

So yes, the advice from Wilmslow would probably apply to me -- I'd probably need the SCM100s. But I wasn't prepared to spend that much money ...
 
My thought on this is that ATC speakers are very flat and hence won’t enhance the bass, albeit you can always add bass boost if you want more. I have 150’s and they will not add bass where it doesn’t exist. However if you want to play loud and recreate the live experience they will definitely do that. When there is deep bass they will literally shake the room. But for those used to listening to speakers voiced for home listening that will often give the bass a bit of bump they take some readjustment and as mentioned, they are not for everyone. You have a nice budget for second hand speakers, take your time and find something you like as that’s all that matters. I haven’t heard them but a lot of people rate the PMC monitors which would also be in your budget range second hand.
 
JBL Array 1400 are excellent-the SAM1 horn is amazing though they are 'only' 89dB/w and the vertical horn can be a WAF deal breaker, L300 is a vintage classic that will rock the house and look super cool.
Most Tannoy monitors will rock and image superbly, if you can find some System 15 DMT monitors or their component parts(I mention them now as I've sold mine)they are 97dB/w and just keep going-excellent on all types of music with a very fast tight bottom end, the controlled dispersion from the Dual Concentric helps with room placement too.
You can get a very good JBL 9800 clone from Behringer-electric in Germany using JBL/Radian/Truextent components(I can do a deal on the15" ME150HS bass mid units).
 
My thought on this is that ATC speakers are very flat and hence won’t enhance the bass, albeit you can always add bass boost if you want more. I have 150’s and they will not add bass where it doesn’t exist. However if you want to play loud and recreate the live experience they will definitely do that. When there is deep bass they will literally shake the room. But for those used to listening to speakers voiced for home listening that will often give the bass a bit of bump they take some readjustment and as mentioned, they are not for everyone. You have a nice budget for second hand speakers, take your time and find something you like as that’s all that matters. I haven’t heard them but a lot of people rate the PMC monitors which would also be in your budget range second hand.
I am looking forward to trying ATCs at home in the near future. I run humble SBLs currently & they often surprise me with bass rendition when present in the music (e.g. Bob Marley - Catch a Fire). I don't like 'weighty' speakers as a rule if you know what I mean.
 
Then ATC are probably your thing, but a home demo if you can get it is the way to go. Nudged by your comment I’m listening to some Bob M now. Very entertaining.
 
Then ATC are probably your thing, but a home demo if you can get it is the way to go. Nudged by your comment I’m listening to some Bob M now. Very entertaining.
Yep, love the Wayne Perkins guitar solo on 'concrete jungle'. My dealer will let me home dem for a couple of weeks
 
Provided you have the space and that you don´t tend to listen to your music at lowish levels you may like the Triangle Signature Deltas.
 
I have a dealer in my town, can have a look. It's with this very dealer that we've tried brand new speakers and it needed around 4500€ or more to sound the same (not better at all) that my old speakers. Can ask anyway, as it's where the Cornwall III are ;)
 
Hi folks,

I'm ready to save some money for my next and final speakers, so I need some advice about what to look at.
My journey into speakers world brought me bad Kef Coda 7, tiny Quad 11L, good clear but bass shy B&W DM4, not refined JBL 4311, overrated JMR Twin, underrated JBL 4406 and maybe more I do not remember.

Today I'm enjoying a pair of refurbished/upgraded filter JBL 4313B and that is a clear step up from my past speakers. They are without clear flaws and to my liking. All frequencies are very good, even the bass, and what I value a lot is that they are neutral and very dynamic and so easy to play quite loud and clear, drums starts to sounds like real life drums. Not very common JBLs, you can compare to L96 which are almost the same but for consumers, the being 4313B tighter and faster.

I do not plan to change the amp, a dual mono Hypex UcD400HG HxR DC coupled, so speakers can be a tough load or can even be active.

Here I am now, if I ask JBL fans they will says "JBL", I do not worship any brands or technology, don't care such things.
So to experienced people here, what great used 4/6000€ speakers should I plan?
As for my taste for "real life dynamic and truth" (which is a pain with bad records), I've now in mind ATC SCM50 Active, but is there any other hidden gems around?

Thanks!
ATC SCM50 is the direction I took a few years back and I have seen no reason to change... I did the tweeter upgrade earlier this year but other than that I haven't touched them since they were installed :)
 
What's your room size? As yours are passive maybe the amp driving them is a bit on the warm side?
My list (brands, several models of interest in each) for now:
• Klipsch
• JBL
• ATC
• PMC
 
Hi Stuart,
sadly I went the open baffle road (loved it!) and it needs a big room, I still got mine (Martin J. King based ones) and they are just unsuitable for a 22/25m2. (I've also tried some Lampizator/greencones and JE Labs ( http://jelabsarch.blogspot.com/2012/06/open-baffle.html) ). I dream to listen to Troels Gravesen's OBL-15 ( http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/OBL-15.htm ) but again need some air around the speakers, right now impossible (and I don't see how I can ever live in a larger home than mine). BTW, I second your advice of good OB for big room owners.
 
I went to the shop selling the Klipsch Cornwall III.
They used to give you a happy welcome some years ago, now the curtain with the real speakers and quality amp/sources stays closed for the "non-bankable-looking guy" that I am. (front of the shop is for Tivoli radios and showcase of small/"in the air" gear). I threw some intense look to this curtain but no way. Order a Klipsch and take it unopened, there is no way to listen to it. They also told me Klipsch only produce 30 pairs to be sold in France. Seems Klipsch doesn't like to do business with customers. I even moved next to their Technics SL1500 but they stuck to the front door. Ok, that Technics is more reliable, far bigger motor, build buy a dedicated japanese worker, far better than older Technics... sales pitch well learned, users say otherwise.
Well I'm disappointed, seems there is no way to listen to theses big speakers and I must save and buy before listening. Quite risky, maybe too risky...
 


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