Acoustic guitars
- Thread starter Tony L
- Start date
Tony L
Administrator
Ok, just to please you lot I’ve just bought a real cheap one whilst I ponder/research a high-end purchase. An early-70s Nippon Gakki (i.e. Japanese-made) Yamaha G-85A for £50 that is just a short bus-ride away. As far as I can make out it is a fairly decent quality laminate construction guitar that dates from 1970-72. They were $89 when new, so that’s a good few hundred quid in today’s money and there is a bit of a collector market for proper Japanese Yamahas so I should get my cash back easy enough when I eventually come to upgrade it. I read somewhere that a lot of ‘70s Yamahas were laminate not so much for cheapness, but because they had many issues with cracks when exporting solid tops all around the world. I’d certainly expect it to be a good bit better than a modern C40 or whatever. I just hope the neck is straight as unlike electrics there is bugger all you can do with classical guitars that doesn’t involve proper woodwork, and I don’t do that!
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
lordsummit
Moderator
Blimey, if you got the one on the link for £50 you did do well!!
Cheese
Bitter lover
Wise man you.
venton
pfm Member
Good stuff. I expect the strings will be old? These are nice strings that last a long time. Change them one at a time to save stressing the neck by taking them all off at once.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000EEL6J6/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000EEL6J6/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Tony L
Administrator
Thanks, I’ll order a set once I’ve picked it up. How significant is the ‘change them one at a time’ thing with a classical guitar? I’d far prefer to get them all off so I can give it a damn good clean, oil the fretboard, polish the frets etc, i.e. all the stuff I’d routinely do on any other second hand guitar.
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
venton
pfm Member
Probably nonsence about one at a time, I was told it and it stuck. Worth googling just to be sure.
Just to be clear, I was talking about replacing them all at once, just not removing all the old ones first. I didn't mean one a week or whatever. It makes sense there would be a lot of tension relieved at once if all strings were taken off, many psi or whatever.
Just to be clear, I was talking about replacing them all at once, just not removing all the old ones first. I didn't mean one a week or whatever. It makes sense there would be a lot of tension relieved at once if all strings were taken off, many psi or whatever.
Cheese
Bitter lover
Nylon strings can take some time to stabilize, up to 1-2 weeks. I always changed them all at the same time and accepted to re-tune the lot once every five minutes. Advantage: I can tune by ear now.
But indeed, I mounted some ProArte as described above and I cannot remember having changed them since, and for a year at least.
The wood has also its own laws. Once a friend of mine gave me his old Ibanez guitar, a rather good one, and for the first 6 months it went out of tune constantly. I mean very bad - let the guitar rest for a night and it was completely detuned, as if a kid had played with the tuners. A few months later is was already a lot better and now the guitar holds the tune amazingly well, over two to three days.
But indeed, I mounted some ProArte as described above and I cannot remember having changed them since, and for a year at least.
The wood has also its own laws. Once a friend of mine gave me his old Ibanez guitar, a rather good one, and for the first 6 months it went out of tune constantly. I mean very bad - let the guitar rest for a night and it was completely detuned, as if a kid had played with the tuners. A few months later is was already a lot better and now the guitar holds the tune amazingly well, over two to three days.
Whaleblue
Southbound
Perfect!
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
slavedata
pfm Member
That's a lot of guitar for fifty quid. You won't lose money on that for sure. Second the comment about changing strings one at a time to keep the guitar in tension. I also saw on a you tube how to video that once you have changed all the strings pull them fairly strongly up and to the side to condition them so they stay in tune. I tried it last time I changed my (metal) strings and it seemed to help the guitar stay in tune after restringing.
Cheese
Bitter lover
Yes, at a guitar shop they told me the same thing. But I would never, ever do such a thing to any of my guitars... The tension involved in stringing a guitar the normal way is already considerable (put some steel strings on a classical guitar, it breaks in two), I can hardly imagine such a torture being any good for your poor guitar. My method is to let the guitar rest for a week and slightly overstretch the new strings once a day, and proceed to proper tuning and playing from then on.
Cheese
Bitter lover
Erm, Tony, wasn't Japan a cheap-labour country at the time ? Just saying.
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
RickyC6
Infuriate the frog-men
Stretching strings is standard practice surely? I’ve done it for 35 years when changing strings. Never once had an issue.(you stretch them gradually all along the length). It means they get stretched once then the damn things stay in tune straight away. Pretty sure any guitar roadie would tell you that.
Tony L
Administrator
I’d not describe it as such, well certainly not the musical instrument makers, many of whom were exceptional IMHO. My knowledge of Japanese history is not vast, but to my mind as a guitar geek the very early ‘70s through to the mid-80s is the golden age of Japanese guitars and spans a huge learning curve where they transitioned from making copies of western instruments, to making impeccable copies, to finaly really improving on them. As hinted earlier I very much like Japanese instruments of this later period. Back in the ‘80s I played a beautiful Aria SB1000 bass, a highly innovative thru-neck design that I liked a lot even if the active electronics were a little odd. As also mentioned upthread I currently have a similarly cool Yamaha SC1200 thru-neck guitar which was one of many late-70s/early-80s statement designs proving they’d now overtaken US standards and had something to say themselves.
I’m struggling to find much detail on the G-85A classical guitar other than it was in production from 1970-72 and I think is of laminate construction rather than solid wood. The comments I can find around forums etc are all very positive and imply it is a very nice sounding guitar, as are others in the range. There seems to be a G-55A, G-60A, G-85A, G-100A and G-130A, all Nippon Gakki and stamped made in Japan, though I haven’t been able to google-up a catalogue so don’t know if they were all concurrent. Japanese guitar numbering can be decidedly odd too, e.g. all bets are off when it comes to higher number being more upmarket, sometimes they just don’t work like that! I’d really like to find a catalogue listing the entire ‘70-72 range to get an idea which is which. I understand the G-85A was $89 when current, which would equate to $570 or so today, so not it wasn’t a real bargain bucket job. Shortly after this they started offshoring the more budget designs to Taiwan with only the high-end instruments being made in Japan, a trend that continues to this day.
As stated above I really want to get the strings right off it so I can thoroughly clean it and work on the fretboard, a 50 year old guitar can often not be an especially hygenic thing, plus the fretboard will likely be very dry and in need of a feed (I have proper fretboard oil etc). I’ll obviously go very slowly and check for movement - I’ll gradually slacken the strings keeping a close eye on neck relief etc. When it comes to classical guitars I know very little aside from their not having truss rods, which is annoying, but with other types I really know my way around (I used to make a few quid setting guitars and basses up for people back in the ‘80s). These old Yamaha acoustics seem pretty tough too, I’ve seen stuff online showing people restoring some real old and damaged beaters. I just hope it is a nice one without any obvious damage or neck issues.
PS The reason I’ve not ordered any strings yet is I want to see what state the neck and top is in first before deciding on guage/tension. If it needs to move a little in either direction that will impact my choice.
RichardH
Bodging pleb
I can't see that having all the strings off at once will be an issue - probably just slacken all the strings at the same time in stages rather than whipping one off before slackening the next if you're worried about uneven stress on the neck. Ditto when restringing - get them all on at low tension then bring them up to tension a bit at a time to keep the tension even across the fretboard. I'm sure Tony has his head screwed on right when it comes to this sort of thing.
docstocker
pfm Member
How about a Takamine
Has a cutaway so good for your noodling
Well made
Ok, has an electronic package that you don’t need but... nice guitars
Has a cutaway so good for your noodling
Well made
Ok, has an electronic package that you don’t need but... nice guitars
Cheese
Bitter lover
I just stumbled upon this video (thank you youtube), in truth I was just looking for a place to publish it. To my knowledge, it is not possible to play a classical guitar better than this.
My guitar teacher constantly raves about Segovia, especially his sound, and I never quite understood why. My problem was that I had watched too many videos Segovia made in the seventies onwards when he was, technically, way past his prime.
Now this is absolute mastery of sound and finally the proof of the man's greatness. I thought he was first and foremost a great musician rather than a guitar virtuoso, now I know he was both. Enjoy.
My guitar teacher constantly raves about Segovia, especially his sound, and I never quite understood why. My problem was that I had watched too many videos Segovia made in the seventies onwards when he was, technically, way past his prime.
Now this is absolute mastery of sound and finally the proof of the man's greatness. I thought he was first and foremost a great musician rather than a guitar virtuoso, now I know he was both. Enjoy.