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Acoustic guitars

You might find that matt vs. gloss has an impact on the sound, as well as looks/durability. Worth checking out.

I get the impression cheap gloss finishes have a seriously adverse (deadening) impact on the sound, hence the amount of mid-priced guitars with a sealed matt finish as it is lighter and resonates better. Spend more cash and gloss starts to reappear, but in a high-end French polish or whatever form rather than a heavy polyurethane finish. I obviously want it to sound nice, but I don’t want to be so afraid of marking it I don’t play the hell out of it. As such I’m willing to pay more for an instrument I feel will be with me for the rest of my life. I want to get this decision right rather than later regret not spending a few extra £hundred or whatever.

I tend to be very good with instruments in that I tend to wear clothes without obvious buttons, belts etc so never leave buckle rash and just playing at home I don’t put dinks or dents in anything. Everything has its stand or case. My Shergolds have the odd mark here and there, but they were there before I owned them plus Shergolds are notorious for body finish cracking (mine are way, way better than most). My real star is the recently aquired 1978 Yamaha SC1200, a very rare guitar that is in an astonishing almost mint condition, it really looks like it was kept unused under a bed in its beautiful fitted case for 40 years. I’d be so far beyond mortified if I ever stuck a dent in that one! I love that thing, kind of like a hard-tail Strat, but way better IMO. Best guitar I’ve ever owned by miles.
 
Spanish guitars/ classical guitars tend to be played with fingers rather than plectrum. Sure, authentic spanish playing will do some strumming. But arguably finger style classical is more complicated than plectrum playing, as you may be sounding three, four, five strings at a time with certain fingers.
To my ear, nylon strings don't sound as good as steel strung when played in chord strumming style. But conversely, finger style classical sounds great.
This song is the sort of thing you can play after a couple of years with a decent teach yourself book.
Three hundred quid would get you a nice spanish guitar imo.
 
I get the impression cheap gloss finishes have a seriously adverse (deadening) impact on the sound
So do I.

Hanika 56PC
Oh, a 56, that's quite something. Lucky man. That's the cedar top with rosewood back and sides, right ?

About the cedar... If you decide to go for such a guitar, make sure it's really the wood you want. I say this because a few years ago I was really a fan of cedar, and for quite some time. I madly fell in love with a Furch steelstrung with cedar top until I went to the shop and... strummed a chord on it. Cedar has a tone to die for but it's very specific, i.e. you might tire of it - a phenomenon comparable to, say, a resonator guitar which finds itself in a corner never to be touched again, even though you've adored it at the beginning. I still like solo notes on a cedar top, but the chord sound is really not my cup of tea ('cheap' sound, sort of). My dream Hanika is therefore a 56PF.

You do know, Tony, that you can have them made to your requirements ? like nut width, neck length etc.

That said, my guitar teacher is a classical player to the core (he didn't know what 'pink floyd' was) and he has played on cedar tops for the last 50 years.
 
You do know, Tony, that you can have them made to your requirements ? like nut width, neck length etc. Perfect for my tiny hands.

Yes, I noticed that. I think I’ll just go for the default though, and assume it is the default for good reason. I’m happy to view it as an entirely new instrument, so whilst I have some personal preferences on bass and electric guitar I just plan to view this as a whole other thing and try not to take any biases I may have picked up with me. I deliberately asked the guy in Forsyths for a typical classical acoustic, as I didn’t want something tilted to an electric player. It is what it is, adapting is my issue!

As to cedar vs. spruce I have no opinion other than most classical guitars do seem to be cedar. I’m sure I’d love either! I happened to spot a decent price on a new 56PC hence that hitting my front-runner list. I just want to put my mind at rest regarding the long-term durability matt finish of the front before hitting the button! As my technique is poor I certainly can’t rule out resting my palm on the top and all the other bad things one shouldn’t do!

PS As the right hand picking is going to be the major struggle/learning curve for me opting for a narrower neck is probably unwise anyway! The strings of classical guitars seem parallel so I’m assuming a narrower nut always equates to a narrower bridge (unlike an electric guitar, bass etc).
 
I've about 3 acoustics currently. Always doing swapsies. Just sold a Guild F30 which was USA made with a small body. Better than a a parlour imo.

VFM goes to my Yamaha LS6. This has a smaller than average body with a smidgeon more width to the neck. It's not the cheapest in the Yamahs range and the quality is sound, so I'm hoping it was not made by exploited labour.

Good luck in your search. The basic problem will be too much choice, I feel.
 
I’ve been doing a little more research and come to the conclusion I want a gloss finish as, as I feared, matt shows wear rather too easily, i.e. it rubs to a sheen in places that can’t be fixed. Sadly that means the Hanika 56PC I had my eye on is now out of contention as it has a matt top (great price on DV247 here, a good few £100 cheaper than most places).

Anyone got any views on Amalio Burguet? Theoretically they tick all the boxes; for around £1300 one can land a very nice looking guitar with a full gloss finish built by a named craftsman in Spain (e.g. the Vanessa model is specified as being built by Damian Burguet). I can’t find a lot in the way of reviews, but the ones I have found imply very nice build, a fairly warm sound and nice friendly low action (which appeals!).

What else should I be looking at? Theoretically I have £2k to spend (including a nice hard case) as I sold my Garrard 301 and Quad 306 a while back and really don’t have the slightest itch for any more hi-fi at the moment! I’m happy to reinvest that cash in a guitar as long as it is something I’ll treasure for the rest of my life (and will age/wear well over that timeframe, hence my wanting a gloss finish). I’d prefer to spend less, so that is the absolute top-end, but it is available for the right instrument.

PS Just watched about 5 or 6 YouTube videos comparing spruce vs cedar tops on same model guitars and in every case I lean towards the spruce on classical, though may prefer cedar on steel string.
 
Personally what I would do (and did do) is buy a well set up second hand classical to start. Play that for a few years. It takes a few years to even have a clue as to what you want in terms of a really nice guitar. Classical guitars really don't hold their new values, so perhaps don't be too hasty to spend £thousands. There will honestly be very subtle differences in tone between a decent £200 second hand classical and a £2000 new classical. And to be honest, the tone comes so much from your style of playing, shape of finger nails, I don't think as a beginner you would notice. Give an expert a second hand £200 classical and it would sound as sweet as could be.
Personally I went after 5 years or so for a Camps M10. Even then, I can only scratch the surface of what it can do.
 
I agree, in principle, with @venton. Spending up to £2000 (or even half that) before you’ve lived with a classical guitar for at least a few months sounds a bit mad to me. If £200 (or even double that) buys a good one s/h surely that’s the place to start, and if you really get on with it, sell for minimal loss and buy the £2000 one with a much clearer idea of what you want.

There’s a good classifieds section here for such wanted ads! ;)
 
I’m very open to buying second hand and have been googling ‘second hand classical guitar’ plus checking eBay each night. I’d prefer a high-end second hand instrument that will hold its value the way my electrics do. I’m in very little doubt that I want to do this and do it with a nice instrument that is a pleasure to use. Whilst I’m in no way a skilled let alone trained musician I have been noodling around on guitars & basses for 40 odd years now, so I’m currently at the level I can at least get a tune out of the thing and thoroughly enjoy the process, which is my sole aim.

Over the past decade my musical taste has very substantially shifted to jazz and classical, so a nice nylon strung guitar will probably fit the sound I have in my head these days even better than my usual electric instruments. As such I don’t want to scrimp on quality and I have the mindset that I really don’t care if it takes me five years or more to get half decent on it. I have the time and the motivation. It is very easy to pick a guitar up and play it each day, I already do that! It will be really nice to have a slightly new journey to try.

I watched a few YouTube videos on classical guitar picking technique last night as I’m aware this will be my steepest learning curve. Comedically trying to hold my far too big Epiphone with its totally dead years old strings (the new ones haven’t landed yet) in a classical position I found I was able to do a reasonably smooth standard three-finger and thumb pick pattern after 15 minutes or so practice once I really understood where my hand and fingers should be posture wise. I actually surprised myself, and that will be *way* easier on a proper classical guitar with a smaller body, wider string spacing and far lower tension (the strings on the Epi are like cheese-wires they are so old!). One positive, by pure fluke, is the way I hold my hand when playing the bass sitting down (how I always play) is reasonably “correct”, i.e. I’m not ‘clawing’ with a bent wrist etc, so I suspect I’ll be able to pick it up if I practice enough as I’m not bringing in any terrible habits with that hand. I’m not for a minute suggesting I’ll pick this up like a genuinely talented 10 year old, but I’m convinced that even as a 55 year old with rather less than perfect finger joints it is possible to progress at a pace that will still be enjoyable. I’m in no rush!
 
I thoroughly recommend the beginner classical guitar books by Jerry Willard on Amazon. They start very simple but progress to some lovely tunes, all building on previous songs. Eg Easy Baroque pieces for classical guitar. They are written in tab (so quick to follow), and include a cd. I have had literally years of enjoyment from these books, and never had a lesson.
 
Thanks, I’ve stuck a copy in my Amazon wish list for later contemplation.

PS Link to book here.
 
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Well, good luck with it whichever guitar you buy! It’s a great hobby however good* you are, or even aim to become.

*or, like me, bad :)
 
Tony, let me say it, try and sleep a few nights over the matter. Personally I've lost hundreds of hours watching EVERY Youtube video in the universe, plus reviews and fora of all sorts, only to find out that having the object in your hands wipes out everything you've read about it.

You certainly know that online guitar demos are always produced through a mixing desk. And hearing the thing once it's in your hands - especially when they are as amateurish as mine - is often a great disappointment. I always wanted a Hummingbird so I could sound like Keith Richards on Angie, it's when I tried one that I found out what a fine player Keith was.

Online demo guitars are often presented with strings as hard as iron bars, they sure sound excellent but are nearly impossible to play. Demos of Taylor GS mini's come to mind.

Playing a classical guitar is, IMO, about finding the sound. It's with this approach I would go hunting for an instrument.
 
One realisation about classical guitar is that the sound hole projects the best sound outwards towards those in front of it. Being the player behind the soundhole, it never sounds so good. Or another way of putting it, other people always sound better than you, even on your own instrument!
 
Venton, thanks for the pointer to Jerry Willard. I purchased a copy last night. This is going to be interesting as currently I only own electric guitars and struggle to play using the fingers of my right hand. Playing a classical guitar or a bass is easy peasy but those thin strings close together are a nightmare.

Cheese, fair comment re videos and then playing an instrument. Sounds analogous to hifi reviews !

Tony, if you have a friend who plays, get him or her to play the guitar you are comptemplating purchasing and listen to what they can get out of it. If they can make it sing then you can as well. You just have to put the hours in.............
 
Chances are if I go new I’ll be buying online as the difference in price is just extraordinary, e.g. there is a £500+ difference between what I can get the Burguet Vanessa brand mentioned upthread new and unused on line and with a ding and a scratch in a local shop! There is a 30 day statutory return period, so no real risk. As I say I have no issue with sinking a bit of cash into this and I don’t have the mindset that you have to “earn” an expensive instrument by being a good player, e.g. I have a proper American Strat and Les Paul and I’m a (not especially skilled) bassist! Buy right, care for the instrument, and one tends to lose very little over a 10 year or more ownership. It is the cheaper stuff that becomes all but worthless.

I don’t work especially fast on these things, so whilst I know I want a good classical guitar I’ve a lot of research still to do to figure out what is a good long-term buy that will be a pleasure to own and learn on, and hold its value well as an investment. I need to get to understand the market in a similar way to the way I do with electric instruments.
 
As far as I have googled, the crazy prices I have seen getting paid for were for early Les Pauls, Strats and some hollow bodies - or the occasional Martin D-something - where prices are pushed upwards by non-playing nouveau riches trying to impress with an object that has made rock history. So far, classical guitars are not that glamourous (except maybe a few Hausers played by Segovia), therefore I have some doubts about them being an investment. When I see an expensive second hand classical guitar I usually see it auctioned for months if it gets sold at all. It also has something to do with the fact that many of them are tailor-made to the player.

P.S.: Tony, in the mental image I have of you, I see much more a musician than an investor, such a Tory thing to be... Life is about music isn't it.
 
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One realisation about classical guitar is that the sound hole projects the best sound outwards towards those in front of it. Being the player behind the soundhole, it never sounds so good. Or another way of putting it, other people always sound better than you, even on your own instrument!

Same with any guitar. That’s why my Emerald has the sound hole on the corner.
 
...well not any guitar. Many have pickups and are plugged into amp, so doesn't matter you are behind. Point is, with classical, you kind of need someone else to play it to you to hear the true sound of it. Well in my experience anyways, in the guitar shop, have a noodle to narrow it down, then sit in front of it while someone plays a familiar tune. The difference in projection can be quite startling.
 
P.S.: Tony, in the mental image I have of you, I see much more a musician than an investor, such a Tory thing to be... Life is about music isn't it.

I’ve spent a lot of my life floating around in the music and arts counterculture, and as someone without much money I always bought musical instruments exactly the same way I buy hi-fi or records, i.e. proper quality stuff, but second hand and suitably pre-depreciated. As such I’ve always been able to own nice stuff for the cost of investment only, I tend to get back the cash I initially spend on resale. I’ve always been of the view that buying cheap or entry-level stuff is always the most expensive and disappointing route long term; it isn’t fun to own and it doesn’t hold its value.

My Les Paul and Strat, both obviously bought second hand, are not hugely rare, but they are both interesting enough to more than hold their value. The Les Paul Standard has a nice amber flame top and being a 2005 is the final year with ‘proper’ internal body contouring before the factory moved to CNC machinery to cut weight-saving pockets inside the body - it is the last of the ‘old-school’ LPs. It weighs a bloody ton! The Strat is rather more interesting as it is an ‘82 ‘Dan Smith’, Dan Smith being a manager poached from Yamaha and brought in to kick the then flagging Fender back into shape after the CBS years. He did this by dramatically simplifying the range and focusing very much on quality. The ‘Dan Smith’ Strats were only made for a single year and are becoming rather collectable. Many view them as the very first ‘Custom Shop’ guitars, though they aren’t really, they are very much their own thing. Mine is a natural finish hard-tail with a rosewood board.

I’d like to have the knowledge to do similar with a classical guitar. Rather tempted by this Asturias as I like Japanese guitars a lot and I suspect it is a rather good one, but I can’t find enough info on it at this point. It think it is 1980s.
 
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