A Tory vs A Labour Brexit - What Real-World Consequences?

[Dave H.]

Great to see a thread explicitly about what differences there may be between a hard Tory Brexit and a Labour Brexit, rather than tribalistic re-hashing of other arguments.

Oh.

 

[maxflinn]

Great to see a thread explicitly about what differences there may be between a hard Tory Brexit and a Labour Brexit, rather than tribalistic re-hashing of other arguments.

Oh.

I tried..

 

[jackbarron]

The value of some property in London has gone down by over 40% during this Brexit catastrophe. A Tory Brexit or a so-called Labour one would make no difference to this.

For some people their property is their pension. Why the hell should they by happy with Brexit and its idiotic proponents?

To make it worse, if you fancy leaving the increasingly racist UK, the value of the Pound keeps dropping so you can rent or buy less abroad.

It wouldn't surprise me if Boris gets in as PM and we go out of the EU with No Deal. England is going down the shitter and it isn't the fault of the EU. It is the fault of Brexit, a Tory or a so-called Labour one.

Jack

 

[Seanm]

The value of some property in London has gone down by over 40% during this Brexit catastrophe.

For some people their property is their pension. Why the hell would they by happy with Brexit and its idiotic proponents?

The nub.

 

[Brian]

Sorry Max, hardline Remainers is Labour Leave propaganda. It's another example of how desperate Labour are to pull themselves out of the Brexit ditch they've knowingly driven into.

They look more and more idiotic as time goes by. Waving the big, bad bogeymen of Boris Johnson and the Tories to try and persuade Remainers to vote Labour in many cases won't work.

If Labour turned into an official anti-Brexit Party and said the public could have a second referendum on whether to leave the EU, I might possibly vote for them but trust would be gone. When Corbyn went for the Leave vote after an advisory referendum, that's when they joined the Lib Dems. They became a dodgy Party willing to ditch principles to try and gain votes.

Corbyn knew nationalists and racists voted to Leave and he still went along with it. That's shameful.

Jack

Hilarious stuff. You even blame Labour for a perfectly legitimate phrase.

 

[jackbarron]

Jack, rather than giving your thoughts as to whether or not there is such a thing as hard remainers, you take the opportunity to blame Labour for coining the phrase 'hard/hardline remainers'?

With respect, you're obsessed with castigating Labour.

Do you not see this?

It makes me laugh you have put up this thread Max. You live in Ireland don't you? If you do it means you are going to stay in the EU, no matter what happens in the UK.

The subtext of this thread, as far as I can see, is to try and sell what you call a Labour Brexit to people on pfm. This makes as much sense as when you tried to persuade people on pfm that Trump was a good person to vote for.

I am not obsessed with castigating Labour. I have no time whatsoever for Leavers of any Party. I was born in the Netherlands as British citizen, my mother was German and my father came from London. I am European, not a Little Englander.

Jack

 

[Brian]

The value of some property in London has gone down by over 40% during this Brexit catastrophe. A Tory Brexit or a so-called Labour one would make no difference to this.

For some people their property is their pension. Why the hell should they by happy with Brexit and its idiotic proponents?

To make it worse, if you fancy leaving the increasingly racist UK, the value of the Pound keeps dropping so you can rent or buy less abroad.

It wouldn't surprise me if Boris gets in as PM and we go out of the EU with No Deal. England is going down the shitter and it isn't the fault of the EU. It is the fault of Brexit, a Tory or a so-called Labour one.

Jack

Thanks to Labour, brexit hasn’t happened.

 

[jackbarron]

Hilarious stuff. You even blame Labour for a perfectly legitimate phrase.

No, I blame Labour for idiotic Brexiteers like you.

Jack

 

[Brian]

It makes me laugh you have put up this thread Max. You live in Ireland don't you? If you do it means you are going to stay in the EU, no matter what happens in the UK.

The subtext of this thread, as far as I can see, is to try and sell what you call a Labour Brexit to people on pfm. This makes as much sense as when you tried to persuade people on pfm that Trump was a good person to vote for.

I am not obsessed with castigating Labour. I have no time whatsoever for Leavers of any Party. I was born in the Netherlands as British citizen, my mother was German and my father came from London. I am European, not a Little Englander.

Jack

Can you explain why, before the referendum, you were on the leave side before flipping to extreme hard-remainer?

 

[jackbarron]

Thanks to Labour, brexit hasn’t happened.

Read the Labour manifesto. Corbyn wants Brexit. There is no difference between him, Johnson and Farage on this.

Jack

 

[jackbarron]

Can you explain why, before the referendum, you were on the leave side before flipping to extreme hard-remainer?

No. I have explained it a number of times already. Go and have a search.

Jack

 

[wyjsar]

Thanks to Labour, brexit hasn’t happened.

Thanks to the SNP... thanks to the LibDems... thanks to the DUP... thanks to Plaid... thanks to TIG... thanks to Green... thanks to the ERG... Brexit hasn't yet happened.
However, the DUP, the ERG and Labour all want it to happen - just on their own terms.

 

[Brian]

No, I blame Labour for idiotic Brexiteers like you.

Jack

Oops, that lie again.

The fact is, responsibility for the whole thing rests with the tory party for setting up the referendum for party interest. Nothing to do with the dreaded Labour party.

 

[Dave H.]

The value of some property in London has gone down by over 40% during this Brexit catastrophe. A Tory Brexit or a so-called Labour one would make no difference to this.

For some people their property is their pension. Why the hell should they by happy with Brexit and its idiotic proponents?

I don't read the intention behind the thread as being that anyone should be happy with Brexit. I'm not, I'm bitterly opposed to Brexit of any flavour, and have attended protests against it and spoken in public about it. I also feel badly let down by politicians I might otherwise support. But instead of focussing on that to the exclusion of all else, I'd also appreciate some discussion of what might actually happen anyway under the different scenarios, involving people who might have different perspectives and information than me.

The subtext of this thread, as far as I can see, is to try and sell what you call a Labour Brexit to people on pfm.

It doesn't have to be. It could, for example, be an opportunity for reasoned discussion of predictions drawn from SWR or Krugman's online material. One poster here (Drood?) used to try to use reliable expert opinion to explain their thinking. And people like Seanm and Matthewr are good at finding out and grasping authoritative opinions that others of us might not have come across yet or thought about clearly.

Or maybe not. Maybe instead, despite the hyperabundance of conflict everywhere else, let's act like most of the media's response to Corbyn wanting more information and say screw dialogue, let's just shout the same things at each other yet again, let's have a WAR! YEAH!

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Oops, that lie again.

The fact is, responsibility for the whole thing rests with the tory party for setting up the referendum for party interest. Nothing to do with the dreaded Labour party.

But, in the eyes of many like Jack and probably millions of others, Labour has acquired the same taint.

If Brexit happens and it all goes to shit, Labour won’t be able to distance themselves and let the Tories take the blame -as they should - because Corbyn chose to be ambiguous about Brexit.

If Labour wants this to be a Tory Brexit, then Labour should have put clear blue water between it and Brexit, right from the start. They didn’t, so they can’t disown it.

 

[jackbarron]

Or maybe not. Maybe instead, despite the hyperabundance of conflict everywhere else, let's act like most of the media's response to Corbyn wanting more information and say screw dialogue, let's just shout the same things at each other yet again, let's have a WAR! YEAH!

You've got it right. Max put up this thread because he wants a War ! I guess Max might back Putin. I'll take Caroline Lucas.

I agree with a lot of what you said in the rest of the post.

Jack

 

[SteveG]

But, in the eyes of many like Jack and probably millions of others, Labour has acquired the same taint.

The public can see Corbyn, Farage and Johnson shoulder to shoulder in their attempt to delivery Brexit at pretty much any cost to the rest of us.

 

[ff1d1l]

Oops, that lie again.

The fact is, responsibility for the whole thing rests with the tory party for setting up the referendum for party interest. Nothing to do with the dreaded Labour party.

Funny that. Just run past me again who voted for the tories referendum, who voted for A50 to be implemented. Just who are the opposition, anyway?

Generously, pisspoor, and realistically complicit...

 

[maxflinn]

It makes me laugh you have put up this thread Max. You live in Ireland don't you? If you do it means you are going to stay in the EU, no matter what happens in the UK.

The subtext of this thread, as far as I can see, is to try and sell what you call a Labour Brexit to people on pfm. This makes as much sense as when you tried to persuade people on pfm that Trump was a good person to vote for.

I am not obsessed with castigating Labour. I have no time whatsoever for Leavers of any Party. I was born in the Netherlands as British citizen, my mother was German and my father came from London. I am European, not a Little Englander.

Jack

Why does it make you laugh, Jack?

There has been no discussion on here re the potential differences between a hard Tory Brexit and a soft Labour Brexit. All there has been is 24/7 anti-Brexit rhetoric (which is fair enough) which has morphed into anti-Corbyn rhetoric (which is unfair, IMO). You have hardly posted about anything else for months.

Yes I live in Ireland so while Brexit may still affect me it won't to the degree it might folk in the UK. I am thus not so emotionally invested in the whole thing and can look at the situation objectively.

Hence this thread, designed to look objectively at the real-world effects of either type of Brexit. Is this not wise given it appears there's going to be one or the other, possibly based on the outcome of a pre-October GE?

I'm not trying to sell anyone anything.

We all know you're staunchly opposed to Brexit. So are many others, however I don't see why you should dictate whether or not this discussion is relevant for others.

 

[Woodface]

I blame the Tories & every thick racist that voted leave, the poor will suffer more & the tories will be OK as most of them are too minted to be effected.