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A TOGGLE switched passive preamp

eguth

pfm Member
POST #6 (see below) ENDS WITH ALL THE PHOTOS AND DIAGRAMS THAT WERE SOMEHOW DELETED FROM THIS FIRST POST.

A TOGGLE SWITCHED ATTENUATOR

In my Audio Conversions article (ISSUE 12, p.14-16) I gave complete details of the passive preamp I built to control my (then) bi- amped system.


Since then I discovered the benefits and pleasures of tri-amping. And so I designed a new switched attenuator to bolt onto the old passive preamp case. The outside of the preamp now sports a bank of toggle switches: neat, elegant and a joy to use.



The principle of my new design is: "the best switch is NO switch; the second best switch is a toggle switch".



The circuit is not my own. I chose Graham Nalty's 'ground switching' circuit for which I give him full credit. [see his excellent Audio Conversions article "The Ultimate in Volume Controls", AC 3rd ed., Sept. 1988, p.26-30].



His basic idea is ‘a single switch in the signal path’. Nalty uses a fixed resistor shunted to ground by resistors of different values


94934190@N00





The new twist is mine: to use ONLY toggle switches. A ‘toggle’ is a joint consisting of two arms almost in line with each other. The arms are connected with an elbow pivot. This type of switch has a positive ‘snap’ action. I have found that it sounds very good, indeed, and is foolproof. ‘Ground switching’ is completely silent. When I throw a toggle all I hear is the mechanical soft click of the toggle: most satisfying.


Fig. 2 WIRING DIAGRAM





I almost always leave the preamp (volume) toggle switched to position 14, the normal volume setting. Occasionally I switch to position 11 and occasionally to position 18. 'Occasionally' means 'not even once a month'. Other than that- perhaps once a year- I find a recording that needs much lower volume- between positions 4 & 8. And once every year I go for position 21. That is LOUD! It is the only position where there is only one resistor in circuit. This I do on bonfire night when I listen to the 1812 Overture (preceded by Handel's Water Music, I might add)- from the safety of the next room with the door firmly closed. They can hear the cannon blasts from my horn subwoofer across the road and down a few houses. That is not very far away, only because my windows and doors are kept shut. The remaining toggle positions? I use them only, perhaps, once every 80 years and then only to test that they are still working.



When changing volume I always throw the toggle I want to go to first, leaving the existing toggle switched in until the new toggle has been thrown. Then I put the previous toggle to ‘off’. This prevents the default position (position 21) from sounding during the change in volume. It sounds complicated but it’s not and it soon becomes automatic.


NOTES
NORMAL POSITION

Best method for determining resistor values:

1) Take reading of your normal potentiometer setting for the most frequently used volume setting.

2) Use 10K for RO.

3) Try 4.7K for R21 (or lower value by 10dB). You will need to take the proportion of your normal pot reading from input to wiper of 10K in order to use 10K and to determine how much of an increase or decrease 10K is on your normal reading. This percentage, and a similar one with respect to reading of wiper to ground will determine your R14 value equivalent volume with R21 in parallel and with input resistor (with RO=10K) as your normal pot setting. Take readings of your highest and lowest pot settings also.

4) Calculate the resistor needed in parallel with R21 to make R14 the equivalent in resistance of your normal pot setting.

5) Choose highest value to try for R20, lowest value to try for R1. I suggest that you use 1W metal films for R1-R20- 1W sound better. Insulate the ground wire between resistor connexions with pieces of PTFE tubing. Bend upper and lower pins of switches up and down to aid soldering. Bend middle (off) positions of switches outwards for the same reason.



THE NORMAL VOLUME POSITION: SW4 toggle thrown DOWN, R14 IN PARALLEL with R21. The values are given using a cartridge of 0.4mV output and my buffer stage. My buffer stage also provides 10dB gain, so with this passive preamp and NO BUFFER STAGE WITH GAIN and a 0.4mV output cartridge you need to increase the values of R1-R20 by approx 10dB, or use same values and INCREASE R21. It is best to use standard values for R1-R20. The values I use are all standard values except for R14 which is a composite of 3 resistors in parallel. In my version, positions 1-4 cannot be used because they attenuate too much and cause hum. You could alter these values to bring R1-R10 closer steps, and start R1 at higher resistance- at least 390R.



N.B. To INCREASE gain of the ENTIRE switched attenuator (GENERALLY) INCREASE the value of R21. To DECREASE the gain (generally) of the entire attenuator DECREASE the value of R21. IN EITHER case the values of R1-R20 remain unaltered. To DECREASE gain (GENERALLY) INCREASE the value of R0 (R0 is easier to desolder and resolder than R21).





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Fig. 3





NORMAL POSITION (1 channel )
R14 IS SHOWN SWITCHED IN PARALLEL WITH R21 VIA SW4













After a good deal of experiment with different resistors I chose a mixture. It is useful to have the means of changing the quality of the sound. This can be used to mask poor recordings, badly scratched ones, or other nasties. I can throw 2 or sometimes even 3 toggles together to put a sound smokescreen over the sound: you cannot do that with a rotary switch. Those 'Doubting Thomases' who believe that 'all resistors sound the same' are in for a rude awakening provided that their system is good enough and that they do not have cloth ears.



I ended up using Vishay bulk foils for R21, Caddock TFO 20s for R0. At positions 9,10,16,19 Holco H2, and at 11,14 Vishay bulk foil. At 17 & 20 I use Caddock TFO20. All other resistors are ordinary metal films: Beyshlag. At this point I mention that I am a great fan of Holcos but I understand that Holsworthy, the manufacturers, have now changed the design and that the new version does not sound as good. Supplies of the old version are getting scarce but you may be able to obtain these on the net. I do not like the sound of 15ppm Welwyns. I always use 1W rating where posssible. I can't use the best resistors (Vishay bulk foil) throughout; they are just too revealing of defects in my system.



I used only gold- plated, sealed toggle switches designed for low level signal switching applications: these are not expensive. You will need, I predict, not more than ten of them. I used miniature ones obtained from RS for the volume bank, and large ones for source switching. You can pull the signal plugs in and out instead of source switching, but I feel that switches are a compromise worth compromising over. There are only 2 sources in my version, one source switch per channel. I also have one large toggle to alter the vol. of the subwoofer; but I could have used a fixed resistor instead because I never alter the toggle position. Roederstein 1W are fitted to this
toggle.



I have used the shortest possible runs of interconnect (I use Belden 78ohm data cable- BICC electronic cables H8065- reviewed by Martin Colloms years back as being almost as good as the best audiophile cable he then tested). It is inexpensive, and I bought a whole roll and have never yet either looked back or come to the end of it. My interconnect runs are much less than 1 metre from signal to passive and less than a metre from passive to amps. I say I am ‘tri-amped’ but I actually use 4 amps; 2 monoblocks, 1 stereo amp and 1 stereo amp bridged to mono.



Everything within the passive is hard- wired using silver solder and, mostly, 99.99% pure silver wire -where necessary sleeved in Teflon tubing. I made certain that all resistor leads, switch terminals and wires were squeaky clean before soldering.



The total cost of this passive preamp is low; compare the price of miniature gold- plated toggle switches with gold - plated rotary ones.



What next? I'm thinking of quad-amping. I needed a buffer stage to cope with the added interconnect that tri-amping brought, but, again, this was a compromise worth compromising for. I am also thinking of moving speakers- no not shifting them to a new location- but speaker ENCLOSURES that MOVE (while the music plays).



Eguth
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I had a passive pre in my system for years but now I am back in the fold and running a modified NAC72. While the passive was great on detail and openness I found it ultimately lacking in bass slam, speed and timing. Not so good for me as I listen to rock music quite a bit.

You have to be very careful with interconnect lead capacitance when using a passive or you RC filter away all the bass.
 
The passive I'm using is great but the overall gain of the system is slightly too low, so I'm going to put a gain circuit in again. I'll be comparing the Starfish with a discrete opamp circuit for starters - a project for the new year.
 
A member is wanting to build this toggle switched attenuator. I took the opportunity to discover that all the images and diagrams are no longer on the thread, so that it is quite useless as is for him.

I have taken new images and linked them below. This has exhausted my computer literacy, so I must now go into hibernation for regeneration.

I have to add that since first building the unit the sound has gone onwards and upwards, thanks to installing the superb Vishay Z-foil resistors in R0 and R 21. I also have them in R13, now my ‘normal’ position.

It is VERY worth while to install a double set of speaker terminals on the rear of the case. You will see this done with Vishay Z-foils installed in the close up photo of the rear speaker terminals. This enables R0 to be quickly and easily removed and replaced as needed for different cartridge outputs. R0 is the gain resistor- and changing this removes the need to replace any of the resistors in R1-R20 in order to increase or decrease the volume of the whole unit. Well worth doing!

I can’t emphasize enough the importance of using R0 as a gain resistor, and putting Vishay Z-foils into this position and R21( internally)- if you want superb performance.


TOGGLE SWITCHED ATTENUATOR PHOTOS+DIAGRAMS 001 by pulitout, on Flickr


TOGGLE SWITCHED ATTENUATOR PHOTOS+DIAGRAMS 002 by pulitout, on Flickr


TOGGLE SWITCHED ATTENUATOR PHOTOS+DIAGRAMS 003 by pulitout, on Flickr


TOGGLE SWITCHED ATTENUATOR PHOTOS+DIAGRAMS 004 by pulitout, on Flickr

TOGGLE SWITCHED ATTENUATOR PHOTOS+DIAGRAMS 005 by pulitout, on Flickr



TOGGLE SWITCHED ATTENUATOR PHOTOS+DIAGRAMS 009 by pulitout, on Flickr


TOGGLE SWITCHED ATTENUATOR PHOTOS+DIAGRAMS 013 by pulitout, on Flickr

[//http://www.flickr.com[URL="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34514709@N07


TOGGLE SWITCHED ATTENUATOR PHOTOS+DIAGRAMS 012 by pulitout, on Flickr


TOGGLE SWITCHED ATTENUATOR PHOTOS+DIAGRAMS 007 by pulitout, on Flickr
 
So why not just use a 6 or 24 way Elma stepped attenuator with the selected film resistors ?:confused: it would look a little less heath Robinson

Alan
 
Eguth,

How about a part number from Farnell or RS etc for the switches you are using.

Thanks,
David

I will look into this and should be able to quote a part number but it may be out of date because the switches were purchased many years ago.

However, with regard to the source (large toggle) switches, these were 'special order' ones specially made for me by Roxborough Electronics. They are superb- and unnecessarily rugged.

I think any high quality gold- plated toggles made for low level switching purposes would do nicely.

333alant
Elma stepped attenuators have a fine reputation. They are also a lot more expensive than toggles.

I am not technical enough to argue the case, but it is my belief that the contacts on a switched attenuator are not as good as on a toggle.

Moreover, a toggle switched attenuator has the advantage, which in not inconsiderable, that you can switch more than one resistor into circuit at a time when needed to provide masking for poor or scratched recordings. This I find most useful.

As far as Heath Robinson looks are concerned I hold up my hands. However, this is down to my own 'home made' skills, not the toggles. Toggles can be installed in a case to look quite as professional as any switched attenuator. They can, if you so choose, also have seperate controls for each channel, eliminating the need for a balance control. I have not done this in the bank of ten small toggles but have done it on the other source switches.
 
Eguth, I have lots of respect for you going down this road, but please just let me say, I think the idea is completely mad. I can't see it going down well in the average lounge.

I also have to say that your original post is easily the most unpleasant looking post I have ever seen bar none. Incredible. I blame microsoft and the stupid list of horrid fonts. Yuk.

Often less is more, which is rather a strange thought considering this irrelevant post.

I'm surprised that you don't use a soldering iron to set the volume every time you want to use your equipment. (sorry)
 
Mudlark

The reason I don’t use a soldering iron to set the volume every time I want to use my equipment is that I have not yet learned how to solder well enough. Thanks for the suggestion; I may get better at soldering some day, but I am not overly hopeful.

Yes, I agree that the idea of a Toggle Switched Attenuator is , as you say, ‘completely mad’. Many good ideas ARE. If they weren’t they would not have been able to have been thunk up.

I’m glad that you find my original post so unpleasant. This may indicate something about you, or me, or both of us, or neither of us. However there is at least one person who finds it unusual and pleasant. I am pleased that the world can contain divergent opinions, so I value yours. Please don’t blame Microsoft; if you want to blame someone, blame me.

I agree that often less is more. I use only about three (3) of the switch positions in a year. Very occassionally I use a couple more. I don’t think I have ever utilised all 21 positions except to test that they work, and their effect.

The upshot is that a Toggle Switched Attenuator with only five (5) switches would be adequate for my purposes.

I don't agree that your post is "irrelevant".
 
Eguth,

Thanks for your generous response to my teasing. I agree that "it takes all sorts".

The rude comments about the colours varied type etc comes from my existing position as a mediator between two schools of thought. On one side is the "individuality is all" and the other side "please keep to the agreed design because we paid an awful lot of money getting advice about how best to market our organisation and we don't need YOU to do your own thing because you think bright pink and comic sans is interesting".

I really do like reading about other's ideas and approaches to the same thing.
Best regards, mike.

getting back to the matter in hand can you tell me how your switch mode (sorry) pre amplifier compares to sealed relays. I am thinking of trying a DIY preamp with a ladder of resistors and relays, remote controlled. (I'm a physical wreck and really need remote control)
 
mudlark
You are pushing my non- technical knowledge to its limits. There are many DIYers on pfm more qualified to answer this.

However, being adventurous, I will have a go probably making mistakes along the way.

Relays, whether sealed or otherwise, are bound to have multiple contacts.

I presume that this is what you have in mind…..

Communication/Signal PC Board Relays
Relatively small, these relays are designed to switch signal-level loads in communications systems, test gear, thermostats, instrumentation, consumer electronics and industrial equipment. Some switch maximum currents up to 5 amps, but they usually switch only milliamps in application. These relays typically have relatively low operate and release times compared to general purpose relays. Most are sealed, and some offer surface mount terminals.



My ‘switched mode’ uses only one toggle as a source switch, plus another toggle for switching in one resistor in parallel with the fixed resistors. So there is a total of two (2) contacts. I presume that your relays must have more than two.

Another feature of sealed relays seems to be that they cannot be accessed for contact cleaning. I don’t know whether switching relays do any ‘self- cleaning’. I understand that toggles do.

I can’t see why anyone would want remote control, but there you go. If you have remote control you have more parts, more to go wrong (possibly) and more ‘less simplicity’. So I don’t go for it, myself. If you have to fiddle with the volume setting each time you play another selection it is good exercise to get off your backside to do this. A remote control leads to fat.

If your physique is such a wreck that you cannot get out of your seat why not put the whole Toggle Switched Attenuator next to the listening seat? Or employ a robot to push the toggles up and down at your command?
 
Please be gentle I was in a hospital bed for more than six months. It hurts just to stand up! It's not laziness, it's pain.

That blue is almost unreadable you swine.

Ok, you can't help with relays. I'm not sure about the internal design, but many are sealed so corrosion shouldn't take place. these switches may even be designed to work in explosive atmospheres.

I guess I will ask someone else.

Best, mike.

PS That hammerite box is disgusting. I had a better box for my train set controller. (A lie actually, but I couldn't think of a better insult.):D:D:D
 
Eguth,

How about a part number from Farnell or RS etc for the switches you are using.

Thanks,
David

I used RS 318-660
These are described by RS as: "ultra miniature switch DP3 POS".

The stock number was from many moons ago, so it may be obsolete. Any ultra miniature gold plated toggle for low level switching applications should suffice. The limiting factor is more likely to be the resistors you choose and use.

I can add that I have never had a failure with these RS switches. They are very reliable, and easy to use. An additional advantage of the bank of switches is that you can easily see the volume setting.
 
RS 318-660 is no longer but plenty to choose from, although mostly through hole.

David

High quality mini toggles I have seen now seem to be silver plated, not gold. Percy, for example, no longer sells gold plated ones. If I was building the unit over again I would plump for silver plated; yes it does oxidise, but the resistance is lower than gold- plated and when it oxidises it still conducts. Most importantly, silver is reckoned to sound better than gold.

The case I used was purchased some 40 years ago in the Harrow Rd. when that road was full of good stuff. I only wish sloping instrument consoles were available in this quality at this price now. It is not painted, though it looks like it from the photo. I think it is hard anodised. It is very scratch proof and a dream to drill. The sides and back are not merely bent- they are riveted as well. I think it looks superb- function reflects style- and it matches my Radford STA 25/III paint colour pretty closely. What I don't like is the white background to the labels, but I can't paint on such small ones well.
 
An Elna switch, or even the Goldpoint attenuators have only one contact point per channel. On the Goldpoint the signal runs through only two resistors, both of which are surface mount foils. It really doesn't get any better electrically or mechanically than that.
 
The mini toggle I use has three positions, ‘on’,’off’ and ‘on’. This kind of toggle locks into any of the three positions. The ‘off’ position is useful to stop the music.

You can wire up a toggle any way you like, but Graham Nalty’s ‘ground switching’ way that I use has the advantage that there is absolutely no audible noise or breakthrough during a switch.

The following quote is from a forum and therefore of uncertain reliability, but it does give one poster’s opinion…

“…Decent toggles will remain in production for a good while yet - unfortunately the same cannot be said of quality rotary switches, which are becoming scarcer and more costly by the month alas. The day is near whereby only mil / aerospace markets will use rotaries, and that'll be the end of them on any kit without numerous zeros on the end of its price …”

I also use rotary switches. They were fitted at the factory with surface- mounted resistors. I use them to attenuate the high level on my passive preamp- the upper level in the photo with the brown bakelite knobs.

These rotary switches do not give fidelity even approaching my toggles.

I bought them because they were cheap, from Hong, and use them only to attenuate the signal from my Leak tuner. I did not expect any improvement over RS wirewound pots I had been using but the improvement was evident. They cost about £10 each and would appear to have the same configuration as Goldpoint and other higher quality rotary offerings.
 
In case you think my soldering skills account for the inferior performance of the rotaries in comparison with my toggle switches, I just remembered that these were soldered into the case by an engineer who is the next thing to a genius when it comes to soldering. He did it with silver solder, in my presence, and at my request.

He was most helpful. I am sworn not to reveal his identity- much to my chagrin.
 


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