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a system for a musician and violin maker...?

Rockmeister

Rockmeister

pfm Member
over 20 years ago, I helped a friend put together a simple but 'accurate' system, comprising a record deck (now long gone), a Creek 4040 amp and a pair of kit speakers based on Rogers LS35a's (Wilmslow audio). The friend is question is a guitarist/mandolin/violin player and singer in a local good folk band, but is, by trade, a Luthier...a stringed instrument maker and restorer. The relelvance of which is simply that if anyone can distinguish the finest possible variations in tone, timbre and all those other things, he can. And would like to, more. Typically, he has been OK with the creek/kit speakers until he mastered his own CD and realised he wasn't really hearing himself.
I've not asked him about budget, but it won't be big. My first thoughts are to look back to Wilmslow and see what time has done to smallish studio monitor copies, and then find a new CD player and amp to suit. If the lot cost four figures that might be ok? ish. Wilmslow's reply was their new 'Overture' monitor...small, accurate but with a Scanspeak top end. The Volt bass/mid is known for it's detail and acuracy so it sounds right.
Music will be 70% folk. Thunderous bass not required. It's 90db efficient so amps from what? 40-75wpc would be fine, and a CD player required. Clean, not clinical. ALL ideas very welcomed.

Anyone interested in Mark can find him here...http://www.mhsi.co.uk/index.htm and if you are near the Isle of Wight and need repair of sales of violins etc please think of him. Amazing bloke, amazing work (sry for the advert :) ).

Or this article about his work.http://www.mhsi.co.uk/059_Strad200907.pdf

Thanks
 
Rockmeister said:
over 20 years ago, I helped a friend put together a simple but 'accurate' system, comprising a record deck (now long gone), a Creek 4040 amp and a pair of kit speakers based on Rogers LS35a's (Wilmslow audio). The friend is question is a guitarist/mandolin/violin player and singer in a local good folk band, but is, by trade, a Luthier...a stringed instrument maker and restorer. The relelvance of which is simply that if anyone can distinguish the finest possible variations in tone, timbre and all those other things, he can. And would like to, more. Typically, he has been OK with the creek/kit speakers until he mastered his own CD and realised he wasn't really hearing himself.
I've not asked him about budget, but it won't be big. My first thoughts are to look back to Wilmslow and see what time has done to smallish studio monitor copies, and then find a new CD player and amp to suit. If the lot cost four figures that might be ok? ish. Wilmslow's reply was their new 'Overture' monitor...small, accurate but with a Scanspeak top end. The Volt bass/mid is known for it's detail and acuracy so it sounds right.
Music will be 70% folk. Thunderous bass not required. It's 90db efficient so amps from what? 40-75wpc would be fine, and a CD player required. Clean, not clinical. ALL ideas very welcomed.

Anyone interested in Mark can find him here...http://www.mhsi.co.uk/index.htm and if you are near the Isle of Wight and need repair of sales of violins etc please think of him. Amazing bloke, amazing work (sry for the advert :) ).

Or this article about his work.http://www.mhsi.co.uk/059_Strad200907.pdf

Thanks
Click to expand...
I'm a violin maker and restorer. Have been since the eighties. Funnily enough play folk music too. Must be a job qualification:)

My workshop system is a pair of Urei 811As, 16" Altec Dual concentrics,
Urei-811A-Pair-Awesome-Cond-Near-Mint-604-8G.jpg

Some homebuilt subs using Mission plate subwoofer amps and JBL 2235H drivers
Luxkit z504
dd3e332fde19529ad0d6ab13d60fbde0.jpg

A homebuilt silver transformer pre
Yamaha dvd 2700
Wyred4Sound remedy
Musical Fidelity v90 with power supply.
DBX graphic an the subs.

Took this to Kegworth last year, there may well be pics and opinions about.

Sound? Well, my opinion of course....huge, extremely clear, extremely natural, don't just hear the bass, but what sort of bass is being played, zero strain, zero listener fatigue. Does all types of music even-handedly.

The Ureis may or may not be displaced by some JBL 4430 clones I'm making at the moment. Makes a change from violins.
nvtg6b.jpg
 
Rockmeister said:
I didn't know...small world. What's the budget on that system of yours if I can ask please (ish anyway).
Click to expand...
The most expensive bit was the pre - the traffos were £650 on the bay.
The rest were just lucky buys, mainly in the few hundreds, yes even the Ureis.
 
Rockmeister said:
Typically, he has been OK with the creek/kit speakers until he mastered his own CD and realised he wasn't really hearing himself.
Click to expand...
It would depend on what he means by "himself". I fear you come back to old question of what sounds (to you) most "real". Some prefer valves and a "musical" system, while some prefer an "accurate" presentation, Whatever they mean!
Can you get him to listen to some different systems to get an idea of what he feels sounds like himself?
 
I think I mean that he knows what he sounds like in the band, knows the sound of his martin guitar and his own mandolin and wants (accepting some interference from the room if not nearfield) to hear those sounds.

On amps, the press suggests Onyko / Audiolab/ Rega as price ascends and that seems like a decent shout for a better modern day Creek?. Probably the audiolab 6000 might suit him depending on speaker power? Anyone heard one? Ubcoloured??
 
£350-500 for some perfesctly useful els57's
similar for Perhaps a Quad amp ...maybe even a good Creek would do for now
Existing cd player for now

Some wriggle room out of a 1000

I certainly admire the other examples here but if theres room els is the way i would go
 
ian r said:
£350-500 for some perfesctly useful els57's
Click to expand...

Define 'perfectly useful'? And I'm not sure that the Quads will work in his space...from bookshelf to well into the room might be a step too far, but the idea is sound otherwise I'm sure. I was thinking newer 'BBC' monitor types, well used or made from a kit.
 
Tannoy i8 as sold by Cooky1257 and Quad 306 fed by a Chord Mojo and Raspberry Pi sounds perfectly natural on violins to this violinist... not the ultimate in bass extension, but very lovely in the middle where the violin action is. Not an expensive solution either
 
I own a pair, my second pair, both bought for 250 -350£ and both had long active lives. Paying a1000£ for a refurbed pair is very unwise imo as i have a pair myself

buying a decent pair of goers is what i meant not hyped up on ebay or refurbed.
 
If I may give you my opinion as someone who plays the violin, I have only felt that I was hearing a true timbre when I have used single ended valve amps. And my wife, who plays the cello and spent her childhood playing chamber music in a family of musicians agrees. Except she doesn't know which amp is which. Her preference has always been for the single ended. She even preferred a modest Unison Research Prelude integrated over an Audio Research Ref 3/ Ref 75 combo for the same reason. And so did I. I haven't gone as far as trying valve output CD players yet.
It suddenly came to me once when I put on a CD of Kyung Wha Chung that I had heard years back, and I didn't recognise her sound. And so I went through my collection and found the same everywhere.
 
Rockmeister said:
over 20 years ago, I helped a friend put together a simple but 'accurate' system, comprising a record deck (now long gone), a Creek 4040 amp and a pair of kit speakers based on Rogers LS35a's (Wilmslow audio). The friend is question is a guitarist/mandolin/violin player and singer in a local good folk band, but is, by trade, a Luthier...a stringed instrument maker and restorer. The relelvance of which is simply that if anyone can distinguish the finest possible variations in tone, timbre and all those other things, he can. And would like to, more. Typically, he has been OK with the creek/kit speakers until he mastered his own CD and realised he wasn't really hearing himself.
I've not asked him about budget, but it won't be big. My first thoughts are to look back to Wilmslow and see what time has done to smallish studio monitor copies, and then find a new CD player and amp to suit. If the lot cost four figures that might be ok? ish. Wilmslow's reply was their new 'Overture' monitor...small, accurate but with a Scanspeak top end. The Volt bass/mid is known for it's detail and acuracy so it sounds right.
Music will be 70% folk. Thunderous bass not required. It's 90db efficient so amps from what? 40-75wpc would be fine, and a CD player required. Clean, not clinical. ALL ideas very welcomed.

Anyone interested in Mark can find him here...http://www.mhsi.co.uk/index.htm and if you are near the Isle of Wight and need repair of sales of violins etc please think of him. Amazing bloke, amazing work (sry for the advert :) ).

Or this article about his work.http://www.mhsi.co.uk/059_Strad200907.pdf

Thanks
Click to expand...
Whatever amp, speakers and CD player is bought, I suggest you factor in the cost of an ifi itube2. It will tranform the sound. Spend most of the remaining budget on speakers and then get a cheap amp from Richer Sounds and a cheap DVD player from a supermarket.
 
I play a violin quite badly and restring a guitar now and then and my suggested system would be Rotel 965bx CDP Yamaha A-S500 and Monitor Audio RX2.

You might get that for around £500 secondhand at a pinch.

Any decent system that is with source, amp and speakers that complement one another should reveal the qualities in a recording. Good or bad.

I'd like to suggest Rogers LS4a speakers which have a lovely mid range for such instruments as violins. Still many available secondhand for about £100 as 30 years old now.

But I drive mine with slightly ott Naim pre power. They sound lovely.
 
Rockmeister said:
if anyone can distinguish the finest possible variations in tone, timbre and all those other things, he can. And would like to, more.

Typically, he has been OK with the creek/kit speakers until he mastered his own CD and realised he wasn't really hearing himself.


I've not asked him about budget, but it won't be big.
Click to expand...

He will probably already know, but if not you could gently prompt him, that he is NEVER going to hear himself on recorded music as he hears himself when playing acoustically.
It is impossible. It is two different forms of sound reproduction.

No hi fi, at any cost, is going to enable a recorded acoustic instrument ( violin for example ) to sound the same as a person playing live in that same room.

The closest I’ve heard ( but still lacking what acoustic music gives ) has been with vinyl front end, valve amps and horn speakers.
With respect, with his budget, it is just not going to happen.
 
I'm with @Take5 , a lot of musicians are uninterested in hifi just because it's so far removed from live performance that it's incomparable. It's surprising how often you see pretty mundane systems.
 
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