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A review of some amps on home demo: Naim v Luxman v Devialet v Vitus

It's interesting hearing the OPs opinion on Naim 'V' Devialet. I had the SuperUniti and a 220 Pro here and didn't really find much in common.
The 220 Pro is more organic and fuller sounding in a levelled and balanced way, the way it digs out detail and information with stronger/textured/agile bass and dynamics even put me off going for a 272/250DR which to be fair i only demo'd in store (they also had a 220 pro). The info retrieval is outstanding across the whole sound yet doesn't emphasise, plus the sound staging and imaging is outstanding...
 
My two pennorth: I lived with 52/135s for some time but with a retirement chunk, considered further self indulgence. I heard a 500 at a dealer’s, but not at home so not a true comparison. I also heard whichever Devialet costs around £10k and found the presentation generally similar to the 500 which (based only of memory of my home system) didn’t seem a leap forward from the 135s. The RI-100 was a far better proposition (I won’t blab on with subjective description) so I got one on extended home dem - and later ordered one. Tellurium Q Black in place of NACA5 brought a further improvement so, in summary, my experience accords with O/P.
 
This thread has got me all interested in the RI-100 again, and room correction software, back to where I was about 8 months ago but now with a Devialet in place of 272/250DR.

I wonder if Vitus is updating their DAC module to take Ethernet and support UPnP for the Melco, it worked fine via USB but the Melco DSM player mode requires UPnP really.

DIRAC and REW acoustic room correction software being download and microphones sorted tomorrow. Great thread. Thanks to the OP :)
 
I was going to buy a Densen B175-XS but the DAC module was/is also way outta date and with streaming being the way forward (my only source) feel amps like these are yesterday's products.. however good they may be.
 
Hello, I'm the OP. Thank you to those who left kind words re my original review, I appreciate your feedback. And thanks for those of you who added to the debate, particularly those who left your own thoughts and opinions on the amps.
Below I post some answers to questions posed along the way.


What happened next?
DUCKWORP, I would be interested, after your exhaustive comparisons, in what you decided to do in your quest for a change of system.

Mike, I had decided that the Vitus RI-100 was the amp I wanted. My Vitus dealer is Richard from Lotus hifi. Richard is an all-round good guy and a very knowledgeable and helpful dealer. I asked him, before I pressed the button, if I could hear the next amp up in the Vitus range: an integrated Class A amp called the SIA-025. He did actually and genuinely warn me not to as he said I would find it hard not to resist it! Oh dear, true words. Anyway, Richard brought it over, set it up, and we had a listen from cold. He left the RI-100 with me to compare the two. To be perfectly honest, on that first listen I couldn’t actually detect a difference between the RI-100 and the SIA-025. But Richard said to leave it running for some time and have a listen later. So I left it overnight and came back to it 24 hours later. Wow! First thing I played was Solid Air by John Martyn, a fave reference track for me with its double bass, plucked guitar, and sumptuous vocal performance. I was left open-mouthed. The pure silkiness of the sound was extraordinary, just drop-dead gorgeous. It was smooth without being smothered, it maintained all the detail and clarity of the RI-100 but produced this wonderful sound with huge depth and subtlety. I switched back to the RI-100 to check I wasn’t imagining this, and to the Naim set-up. I was not imagining it. I tried different types of music which revealed that the differences were really noticeable on acoustic, jazz, classical, and vocal music: on these the music had more depth, more openness, and this feeling that I cannot describe other than a silkiness I had never heard before. Not the velvety warmth of the Luxman, but a very natural smoothness. On rock and electronic the differences to the RI-100 in my system were less evident except in the bass department where the SIA-025 had a more natural bass.

So after hearing the SIA-025 I could not resist and pressed the button. It was more than my original budget, but hey, who hasn’t done that before? And now I have my forever amp, no more upgrading necessary. And by the time I had factored in the NAIM 552 trade-in value the SIA-025 was in line with what a NAP300 plus new rack would have cost (just listen to that justification self-talk!). The sound difference, for my taste, is so huge.

However, the reason I didn’t review the SIA-025 in the original post was that the point of the original review was to look at amps which cost the same as the trade-in value of the NAC 552 (£10k), and I had the other amps in my system simultaneously with the RI-100 and Naim, so I felt that the review would be better to concentrate on the RI-100.



How I referenced the amps vs each other
B.t.w., how did you acquire the review kit, apart from your Naim, that is, and did you review different amp's at different times, using notes but referencing the other three against the Naim on separate occasions?

Good question. The Naim and the RI-100 were common throughout the whole process. The Luxman came in and out, followed by the Devialet. So I could make easy a/b/c comparisons between the Naim/Vitus/Luxman and then the Naim/Vitus/Devialet. I did not make listening notes but I have a good aural memory!



The dealers I used
how did you acquire the review kit, apart from your Naim, that is?

As I say above the Vitus was from Richard at Lotus hifi. Richard is great - he knows his stuff inside out and offers a real first class service to his clients. I thoroughly recommend him.
The Luxman and Devialet came from another fantastic dealer: Saj at AudioVenue in London. Saj always offers advice that is right on-the-nose, and runs a superb hifi business in West London.



The Naim/B&W and Vitus/B&W combo
I’ve certainly not ever come across recommendations for Naim amps mated to B&W speakers. Only heard that combination once; it was sharp and nasty.
I chose the B&Ws back in 2012 when I demoes a bunch of different speakers at the Grahams store in London. I cannot recall all the speakers I tried but one was Spendor, and another was a Naim speaker. The B&Ws were far and away the best even though they were beyond my intended budget. In my system they were never sharp & nasty. They were far more open than my previous Linn Ceilidh speakers, but I would get Naim listening-fatigue from both the old Linns and the B&Ws.

With the Vitus the B&Ws sound amazing though I know I can get more out of the Vitus. I have demoed various other speakers but found that all of them have a bass boom in my room which is unpleasant on much music recorded post 2000. The frequency my room resonates at seems to be underrepresented in the bass output of the B&W 804D so for now they remain in my system.



SAM on the Devialet
As a matter of interest was the Devialet tried with SAM turned off? O
The SAM was set up by the dealer Tony, who knew the speakers I had. I did not change it and so I am guessing it was on but I cannot answer for sure.



Room acoustics
Great write up but why dont you fix your room acoustic problem before changing amps etc?
Thank you for your complement Rodney. With respect to the room: it is a cuboid room with a bay and an acoustic engineering friend tells me the problems are from a cuboid room which is notorious for boomy bass, along with odd reflections from the bay window. I could solve this by using triangular bass dampeners/absorbers along the ceiling/wall join. Unfortunately my listening room is also the lounge/tv room/family chilling room and the ‘look’ would not be acceptable. If I fire the speakers down the room from the bay the boom goes away. But unfortunately this also won’t work given the other uses of the room. Real life gets in the way again!



Teddy & Naim
Perhaps try the Teddy integrated or pre/power options and compare them with your Naim NAC 552 / NAP 300 as the description of the Vitus RI-100 is quite similar to the Teddy gear.
I really enjoyed reading your comments Ryder, your descriptions of some of the sound I was trying to describe were articulated better than I could do. With regard to Teddy, I use Teddy Power Supplies on my second system (a Naim CDX and 282) and think that they are exceptionally good value for money. I never did try Teddy's amps though, they were not easy to demo without ordering from Teddy and then returning, which always seems a lot of effort and cost given the import duties which would arise.
 
To the OP - thanks for the response.

Interesting as my problem room was also a cuboid, glad you found a speaker that works.
 
Interesting and well written story - thanks for posting here.

Seeing your now-replaced system and comparing it with my own Naim system my immediate reaction is that it was unbalanced with a pre-amp of a higher grade than the other components. The 250 is a little unrefined and lacking in the bass department. When I had mine serviced by Mark at Witch Hat I had the Avondale NCC200 modules installed. These had a massive impact and gave the bottom end a lot more clarity and grunt. The bass goes a lot deeper now. It’s a very cost effective upgrade though with the disadvantage that it’s difficult to compare before and after. Unless you have an understanding friend with a modified 250 it’s a case of take the plunge and go.

The other area of unbalance is power supply for the CDS3. This is a fantastic player but it can’t give its best with an XPS. The 555PS will give a massive improvement to the sound with greater clarity and better smoothness without the sound being boring. It also maintains the lively and enjoyable Naim sound. The old mantra of source-first has its place and a top notch pre-amp like the 552 deserves a better source.

If I had to rank the changes I would say 555PS first, then upgrade the 250.

I’ve never heard a Vitus but would have thought that it too would benefit from an upgrade to the source components.
 
Something like a Trinnov st2 or amethyst will cure most of the problems at your seated position..will certainly cure the bass boom (as would a simple parametric used below 200hz or so) and wont involve physical treatment
Trinnov will correct amplitude , phase , group delay , impulse response and to some extent compensate for reflections .
The trinnov units are not cheap--eu 7000-11000 , another approach is to use DiRAC either hardware based (minidsp eu700) or software based Eu400 or so
Another way to get better bass is to use multiple (2-4) subs to smooth the room

I know im preaching a bit , but a compromised listening space will compromise your hifi/gear
Bass boom tends to mask everything
 
Thank you, DUCKWORP, for the follow-up of your review. I was very interested to read of the less than subtle difference between the two integrated (?) Vitus amp's. Makes me wonder about the separates ! Richard used to be quite a prolific poster here in his pre- dealership box-swapping days. If I were nearer to West London I'd be very tempted to try them with my ESLs. Mind you, I'm all valve now and as this is a far cry from my 552 etc., the differences you appreciate might not be so apparent here, assuming optimum compatibility with my Quad 2905s.

It was at Grahams that my friend and I heard the very large (Argonaut?) B & Ws on the end of Naim. Your experience with both Linn and Naim speakers doesn't surprise me at all but the Spendor is a different animal. Again, maybe lack of synergy here.

Combining high level separates (well, the 552, anyway) in one box and climbing a few sonic rungs into the bargain is quite a result, though your B & Ws may have influenced your decision by being more compatible with the Vitus. This does seem to make it a better all-rounder, though, regardless.

Just a thought, as your speakers are front ported. If placing them at the bay end allows a little more space behind and affords better integration, it's possible that increasing your rear space where they are might improve matters.

I would also endorse the suggestion above of adding a 555PS to your CDP, assuming you want to stay with Naim. Don't Vitus do a CDP.................?:D

Really enjoyable reviews/thread. Thanks.

PS. Just found that my local dealer does Vitus ! Surprise, but looking into what's on offer in the amplification range, there seems to be a consistent dearth of inputs; at least, RCA inputs. Not even sure they have tape out (but surely, they MUST !).
 
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Sounds like the SIA-025 really hit the nail on the head. Richard at Lotus does Tidal also. Really glad you found that 'end of the journey' amp, I think I am still looking and researching, does make you wonder about Vitus separates.
 
I remember hearing the 804Ds at a dealers a couple of years ago at the end of a naim system when looking for new speakers. They sounded dreadful, generally hard sounding with a glassy top end and surprisingly poor bass given their size. So not surprised that a CDS3 and Vitus amp both of which have a rolled off treble and warm mid-range are needed to tame them.
 
I remember hearing the 804Ds at a dealers a couple of years ago at the end of a naim system when looking for new speakers. They sounded dreadful, generally hard sounding with a glassy top end and surprisingly poor bass given their size. So not surprised that a CDS3 and Vitus amp both of which have a rolled off treble and warm mid-range are needed to tame them.

Is that not the art of system matching
 
You did all right!

I‘ve made the same switch more than 7 months ago with trading in my Naim 552 agaits a Vitus SIA-025 and never regretted it. Much more of everything and no further need of upgrading amp side. The only thing I did was changing to Vitus SCD-025 on source side.
That‘s what I‘ve learned when using Naim, the community allways will tell you....oh, your system is unbalanced and you have to change and upgrade component x for y, cable a to b and use a full naim fraim. Please also take care of proper cable routing etc. With Vitus it‘s all much easier: lesser cables, not that many shelfes and when you watch at it you never thought your room looks like a hifi dealers room with all that stuff. You just will enjoy every single minute with wonderful music playing.

So again, you did a very good decision and I wish you very pleasant hours of listening your music collection.
 
I remember hearing the 804Ds at a dealers a couple of years ago at the end of a naim system when looking for new speakers. They sounded dreadful, generally hard sounding with a glassy top end and surprisingly poor bass given their size. So not surprised that a CDS3 and Vitus amp both of which have a rolled off treble and warm mid-range are needed to tame them.
Not sure that is quite true,
http://archimago.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/measurements-what-does-us500watt-stereo.html#more

Keith
 
Another SIA025 plus SCD025 owner here, had the amp for a year then added the SCD, don’t really feel the need for separates again thought I’m sure the Vitus pre/power combos will be top notch. To be honest if I had bought the Ri100 it might be all I needed, the SIA was an indulgence at double the cost, it has the advantage of Class A switchable from AB and is more refined. The big difference between the Ri100 and SIA025 is in Class A and the OP has described that spot on. Very happy Vitus owner here, great choice duckworp and all the best with your new kit.
 
Another SIA025 plus SCD025 owner here, had the amp for a year then added the SCD, don’t really feel the need for separates again thought I’m sure the Vitus pre/power combos will be top notch. To be honest if I had bought the Ri100 it might be all I needed, the SIA was an indulgence at double the cost, it has the advantage of Class A switchable from AB and is more refined. The big difference between the Ri100 and SIA025 is in Class A and the OP has described that spot on. Very happy Vitus owner here, great choice duckworp and all the best with your new kit.



OP here again: this thread is about amps so I didn’t mention the source. But like you I also changed to the incredible Vitus SCD-025 a few weeks after the SIA-025 arrived. The great thing about comparing the source is that I could have both the Naim CDS3 and the SCD-025 through the two rca inputs in the amp, then play the same cd simultaneously through both and do a live a/b blind test. I would switch the inputs with the remote a few times till I had no idea which was playing, then do an a/b blind test. There actually was not much point in doing that since the SCD-025 was in a completely different class to the CDS3, I mean completely. I could tell instantly which was which. The SCD-025 has this depth of sound which was incredible, with the CDS3 sounding flat, two dimensional. It is an extraordinary machine, and a DAC too so I plan to front-end it with a Melco one day, maybe, if I can muster the energy to rip all my CDs. So I could have written the words you wrote: I ended up going from potentially 6 boxes down to 2, with a sound that is absolutely incredible, and so far removed and improved from the Naim system it replaced.
 
i was looking at that amp the other day ...19k !! makes that beast i have here on demo peanuts !!

am i right in thinking there is a new model vitus integrated coming out ?
 
i was looking at that amp the other day ...19k !! makes that beast i have here on demo peanuts !!

am i right in thinking there is a new model vitus integrated coming out ?

I believe an RI-101 is due with a new pre config the change, whispers in the wind I heard the other day :)
 


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