Interesting. What does it sound like?
A new belt for the Linn LP12
- Thread starter Mike P
- Start date
wylton
Naim and Mana member
@suzywong I just tested mine with the blue belt and without adjustment the LP12 is -1.22% slow at 33.3rpm. At 45rpm, it got up to speed ok but again, it was slow, this time -1.68%, this with a Lingo 1. This does mean that comparing the two belts will be tricky; you certainly can't compare them directly without adjusting the pully if you are using a normal power supply rather than a Radikal or similar. I've run out of time today to try some music and tbh, I've never actually tried adjusting the speed on my Linn, though I gather it is quite simple.
joe9407
actress/activist
OK! The blue belt arrived here in NYC yesterday afternoon and I installed it today.
The blue belt is definitely smoother, softer, and stretchier than the Linn belt, which feels a bit stiff and coarse in comparison. It took a couple tries to get the belt to stay in the center of the pulley when spinning, but once there it's stayed there. My Radikal also initially took a couple minutes for the LED light to reduce in intensity; after that, it got up to speed as normal after stopping and starting the motor.
Sonically, I'd say that there's a lower noise floor and more detail with the blue belt, and a greater sense of ease in the presentation. I felt like pops and clicks had less emphasis with the blue belt, as well.
After listening to a few tracks to get the aforementioned direct comparo, I'm letting the table spin for a few hours to break things in.
Early days here, but great so far. Well done, @Mike P !
The blue belt is definitely smoother, softer, and stretchier than the Linn belt, which feels a bit stiff and coarse in comparison. It took a couple tries to get the belt to stay in the center of the pulley when spinning, but once there it's stayed there. My Radikal also initially took a couple minutes for the LED light to reduce in intensity; after that, it got up to speed as normal after stopping and starting the motor.
Sonically, I'd say that there's a lower noise floor and more detail with the blue belt, and a greater sense of ease in the presentation. I felt like pops and clicks had less emphasis with the blue belt, as well.
After listening to a few tracks to get the aforementioned direct comparo, I'm letting the table spin for a few hours to break things in.
Early days here, but great so far. Well done, @Mike P !
suzywong
Wot, no electrons?
not played anything yet.
Likewise I’ve never tried adjusting the speed……
Apart from the apparent degradation in measured performance, the failure** to spin up to 45rpm would be the showstopper for me. After all that’s why I bought the Lingo in the first place!
** it got up to 26rpm max, according to App: Turntable Speed - i.e. the one that Tony’s post#39 shows.
BTW, have anybody else tried 45rpm on their Sondek?
Thoughts…..
1. My motor is original, or at least mid ’80’s. Is it knackered? Does the blue belt work with an old motor? In its defence, the result with the Linn belt are pretty fair!
2. Is the Tranquility having a negative impact?
3. Do I have to have a record “playing” in order to include “stylus drag” in the tests.
wylton
Naim and Mana member
It's probably a pully adjustment, because mine got up to 45rpm albeit a little shakily and slow! Did you clean the pully and driving surface of the sub platter with the supplied isopropanol wipe? I'm using the same app btw.
@suzywong, just tried mine at 45rpm (Mober D.C.), wouldn’t steady down at all (rock solid at 33.3). Flickering between 45.1 to 45.6. Gave it a few minutes, then back to 33.3. Run out of time tonight, I’ll run it some more at 33.3 tomorrow and try again. Will let you know if time and 33.3 running improves things.
suzywong
Wot, no electrons?
No, didn’t get that far
I was interrupted by a phone call from daughter#2…….”Papa, are you coming up this weekend to do <long list of DIY bits>..”One for tomorrow, in between loading up the car with a selection of “DIY” DeWalt tools/screws/rawlplugs/etc)
wylton
Naim and Mana member
Well, do that first before you adjust anything.
suzywong
Wot, no electrons?
Tricky one this. At the moment, my 33 & 45rpm figures ain’t bad, and the Linn belt does get up to 45rpm smoothly.
So I’m reluctant to start fiddling, and risk really screwing things up.
Agreed!
Last edited:
wylton
Naim and Mana member
Understood, same for me too, but if you don't, you can't use the new belt. Defo give the drive surfaces a wipe though either way.
suzywong
Wot, no electrons?
Hi Wylton,
Did you clean (with the wipe Mike sent) the belt as well as the pulley and inner platter? I used latex gloves** when I fitted the belt.
**Although I fully accept that perhaps not everybody has box loads of latex gloves in their household.
We have them for when we give Zebedee (the cat) his chemo pills.
Regarding speed adjustment, I’m not sure which bits to twiddle, but hopefully Peter Swain’s excellent ebooks might hold the clues. I think I read somewhere that the belt is supposed to run on the widest part of the pulley and one checks that by putting the outer platter on upside down, such that one can see what the belt is doing - before wielding the screwdriver!
Did you clean (with the wipe Mike sent) the belt as well as the pulley and inner platter? I used latex gloves** when I fitted the belt.
**Although I fully accept that perhaps not everybody has box loads of latex gloves in their household.
We have them for when we give Zebedee (the cat) his chemo pills.
Regarding speed adjustment, I’m not sure which bits to twiddle, but hopefully Peter Swain’s excellent ebooks might hold the clues. I think I read somewhere that the belt is supposed to run on the widest part of the pulley and one checks that by putting the outer platter on upside down, such that one can see what the belt is doing - before wielding the screwdriver!
wylton
Naim and Mana member
Hi Wylton,
Did you clean (with the wipe Mike sent) the belt as well as the pulley and inner platter? I used latex gloves** when I fitted the belt.
**Although I fully accept that perhaps not everybody has box loads of latex gloves in their household.
We have them for when we give Zebedee (the cat) his chemo pills.
Regarding speed adjustment, I’m not sure which bits to twiddle, but hopefully Peter Swain’s excellent ebooks might hold the clues. I think I read somewhere that the belt is supposed to run on the widest part of the pulley and one checks that by putting the outer platter on upside down, such that one can see what the belt is doing - before wielding the screwdriver!
No, I just cleaned the driving surfaces, not the belt. Did you see @Mike P 's instructions on the other thread? He suggests that washing your hands before touching the belt will be sufficient. Regarding the adjustment, yes, Peter Swain’s guides will help, a I said, I'm in unknown territory here too. It's probably best to make a note of which way you adjust it, so that if all else fails, you can get it back to where it was. It is a bit of a PITA tbh, not being able to do a straight swap!
Tony L
Administrator
FWIW I’d not touch anything on the LP12 (aside from cleaning it) until you have got about 6-10 hours playing time on the belt. The degree to which it ‘breaks in’ on a TD-124 is substantial and I’d not be surprised if the same was true on other decks, even if the degree is less. Never tweak a moving target!
david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
Initially I was struck by the obvious increase in detail and reduced noise floor.
These had my alarm bells ringing with a tranquility deja vu and my concerns were confirmed as it became obvious that the rhythm was all over the place.
Then I flipped it over and tried it the other way around, rhythmically much better, bass started to play in time.
And the more I play it the better it gets, some tracks suit it better than others.
It’s very different to the Linn Belt, it likes vocals but drums have less impact.
I’ve had some very interesting results with records I know very well, the problem being , as with any change that you tend to focus on the improvements not what is lost.
I’m going to give it the rest of the weekend to bed in , then go back to the Linn belt before giving final judgment, but so far so good.
These had my alarm bells ringing with a tranquility deja vu and my concerns were confirmed as it became obvious that the rhythm was all over the place.
Then I flipped it over and tried it the other way around, rhythmically much better, bass started to play in time.
And the more I play it the better it gets, some tracks suit it better than others.
It’s very different to the Linn Belt, it likes vocals but drums have less impact.
I’ve had some very interesting results with records I know very well, the problem being , as with any change that you tend to focus on the improvements not what is lost.
I’m going to give it the rest of the weekend to bed in , then go back to the Linn belt before giving final judgment, but so far so good.
wylton
Naim and Mana member
I had the LP12 running for several hours yesterday and the -1.20% slow speed didn't change (-1.68% for 45rpm). I'll let it run today for a while and will then try an adjustment later, but there's no point in listening to it at the moment until it's running at the correct speed.
Tony L
Administrator
The best theory I have is that the belt comes a bit ‘sticky’ and it takes a little time for this to go. The 124’s motor is too high-torque for that to translate to speed error, plus it has a fine speed adjust anyway*, so who cares, but I suspect this is why it is noisy at the start. My suspicion is that this slight tackiness recedes with a little use and the belt stops ‘grabbing’ the metal surfaces. I can see how on a slow-drive low-torque deck like a Linn this could translate as pitch. This is why I would suggest those with LP12s, TD-150s etc don’t do anything to their turntable setup for a good while. It may well take a lot longer for the belt to break in on a LP12 than a 124 as the latter is a pretty hostile environment for a belt as it is very fast running and fighting the resistance of the eddy-brake. It is fundamentally different to a conventional belt-drive deck like a Linn.
*To be honest I haven’t got my motor oil brand/viscosity right yet so mine has quite a long warm-up time.
wylton
Naim and Mana member
It is a predicament tbh. Obviously @Mike P wants data back so that he can make sure that he is supplying the correct belts, but at the moment, unless you have a psu like the Radikal that automatically takes care of speed adjustment, you're stuck with adjusting the pully. I'll let it run for a few hours today to see how it goes, but as it stands, an audition is a waste of time until it runs at the correct speed. I'll pop back now and then today with speed test results, but will do as you suggest @Tony L and not adjust the pully yet!
High praise from you, David!! Not played owt yet, letting it bed in.
To be fair to Mike, remembering the days before digital speed adjustment, I always had to adjust the speed on my lp12 when changing belts (strobe and light, no apps then!)