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80/81 Pat Metheny

pickwickpapers

pickwickpapers

pfm Member
80/81 ... forty (one) years ago

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was just thinking about the album, not in relation to any kind of anniversary, and searched for the cover to put a post up on the PFM music thread; this came up:


"Forty years later. Pat Metheny’s “80/81”.

Recorded exactly forty years ago, between May 26 and May 30, 1980, Pat Metheny’s album “80/81” stands out as a very inspired and enduring example of collective creativity. The music was burning from the first note...
The quintet assembled for the recording featured 25-year-old Pat Metheny (guitar) and some of his favourite musicians: Michael Brecker and Dewey Redman (tenor saxophone), Charlie Haden (double bass) and Jack DeJohnette (drums).
For me, it is one of the most memorable sessions we have recorded and mixed in Oslo’s Talent Studio with recording engineer Jan Erik Kongshaug.

Listen to it!

Manfred Eicher"



couldn't agree more, even if I'm a bit late in terms of the 'anniversary'. Pivotal recording for me.

irrc, bought it on vinyl close to year of release from a little shop on Wimbledon broadway mostly selling classical.

Apologies if a thread was created last year!
 
Available on vinyl again (Amazon) too! I’ve got the original CD issue and it is a great album.

PS Modern ECM vinyl pressings seem very nice, I bought a Nik Bartsch album, Continuum, recently and it is a truly superb sounding thing. Very decent pricing in the grand scheme of things too given we have now all been conditioned to pay £30+ for similar audiophile-grade material.
 
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Tony L said:
Available on vinyl again (Amazon) too! I’ve got the original CD issue and it is a great album.

PS Modern ECM vinyl pressings seem very nice, I bought a Nik Bartsch album, Continuum, recently and it is a truly superb sounding thing. Very decent pricing in the grand scheme of things too given we have now all been conditioned to pay £30+ for similar audiophile-grade material.
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A few years back ECM regularly did discounted vinyl and I bought most of them. Not one problem and I'd say easily the best pressed vinyl I have. Hopefully they are still delivering here.
 
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Almost all my ECM stuff (I have quite a lot) is on CD as they are almost exclusively digital recordings and their CD mastering quality is absolutely state of the art, some of the best I have ever heard. The CDs are getting very expensive now though, often within a tenner of the vinyl, and in that case I’ll pay for the vinyl as it will hold value far better. Both sound great IMO. ECM is a wonderful label!
 
Tony L said:
Available on vinyl again (Amazon) too! I’ve got the original CD issue and it is a great album.

PS Modern ECM vinyl pressings seem very nice, I bought a Nik Bartsch album, Continuum, recently and it is a truly superb sounding thing. Very decent pricing in the grand scheme of things too given we have now all been conditioned to pay £30+ for similar audiophile-grade material.
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Tony - do check your CD version - when first issued thus, and kept to one disc, it lost the fantastic 'pretty scattered' track (free-ish post-bop) if memory serves.

if you've got a vinyl copy you're golden :)
 
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pickwickpapers said:
Tony - do check your CD version - when first issued thus, and kept to one disc, it lost the fantastic 'pretty scattered' track (free-ish post-bop) if memory serves.
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Mine is the fat-case silver to centre 2xCD issue which I assumed was the first issue, but looking at Discogs it appears there was an even earlier single disc. It is very good and does have that track!
 
have slightly mixed feelings about ECM's use of reverb (or whatever the correct term for the recording effect / quality might be), as it comes across on the digital copies of music that was recorded during the 'analogue era' - vinyl was better / kinder when still in the ascendent I think.
'Photo with' - a Garbarek album I particularly love, seemed a bit harsh / thin when I was finally able to get hold of a cd, after my vinyl copy was sent to the dump by he who shall not be named.
Could be all sorts of user hardware reasons for that I guess, so I'm probably not saying much.

re: 80/81, the recording of Metheny's acoustic is partularly good - his solos are lustrous if you can apply that to sound. Stunningly beautiful.
and on that score - this album marked the high-water mark for his 'sound' before he went over to the guitar synth ... for reasons which remain bemusing to me.
 
I am pretty certain Jan Garbarek uses digital reverb on his sax as a very deliberate effect, so it is what it is. He is one of the few ECM artists I struggle with, likely for this reason (to my ears his sax sounds way too ‘80s cop show incidental music!).
 
right, interesting - certainly he lost me with the officium stuff, where he seemed to circle 'round the acappella stuff prettily to little effect, and changing his rhythm section (Christensen out, Katche in).
Would say that 'Photo With' would probably pre-date the use of a digital reverb tho' ? The sound to which I refer on that particular album was 'global'; the drums sounded ropey etc ... or seemed to.

But I know what you mean when he's on Alto - although it's a 'problem' which affects that size of horn generally perhaps, to my ear (**umm, 'a little knowledge ...' alert - see my post below!).



If you haven't (although I'm sure you have) - do check out his work with Jarrett on the two landmark 'european quartet' albums (now sadly dismissed stateside it would appear, not least by Jarrett himself) - just skip the sickly 'my song' track itself ;-) (not Jarrett's finest moment, and possibly why he seems ambivalent about the music this group made now ... and Garabarek's sound on it doesn't help it's true).
Indeed I would say just about any ECM album he was involved with in the 70s and early 80s, whether leader or not, is essential listening.

Gosh now I'm thinking of some them ... 'folk songs' with Gismonti and Haden, the amazing tone poetry of Eventyr with Abercrombie and one of a kind Nana Vasconcelos (is he still around?).
So many ingrained in my aural memory! F**king H**l, take me back please!

His own group arguably peaked with 'its ok to listen to the grey voice', with David Torn on guitar. In some respects, from album cover to music, it's almost too ECM-ish.
Actually a long time since I've listened to it - wonder what I'd make of it now...
 
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There was a recent conversation elsewhere ( may have been an interloper in the Tone Poet thread) about tape v digital recording on ECM. I can't find it at the moment ( may have been shared by @grahamH ) but there was a point if think pre 1984 when recording were tape based.

Agree in general with the comments re Gabarek. There's something about his sound somehow both cop show and new age warbling. That said I really like Rites and his playing with Tomasz Stanko on Manu Katche's Neighbourhood and on Jarrett's My Song works really well. That said I've also got a copy of his live set Dresden that someone gave me as a pressie which seems to encapsulate all that I don't like about him.

I had another listen to 80/81 last week when i realised Dewey Redman and Charlie Haden both played on it. It a lot less jazz prog ( and therefore more enjoyable) than i remember it being.

Kevin
 
actually, looks like I've made a bit of prune of myself in my comments above, as checking, Garbarek seems to play Alto but rarely ... so ...

odd, isn't it, our taste is pretty much diametrically opposed in the specifics discussed above, kjb, when in general it appears we both 'like' that 'kind of thing' ...

coming back to 80/81 it's kind of reminded me, that I have exactly that 'tone' problem with michael brecker in general (and, of course, he will have played the sax on a lot of those '80s cop shows ... ;-) )

for me, Garbarek is a masterful musician even if I haven't followed his output for a fair few years now.
His flute playing on Ralph Towner's 'Nimbus' has just come to mind - wonderful. As well as a couple of things on 'Ragas and Sagas' - ecstatically joyous.

But there's one thing we can agree on I guess - he isn't on 80/81 :D
 
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pickwickpapers said:
:D
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Curious how the thread wandered off topic there.

Here's a trailer for a record where Metheny and Garabek do play together. Is this the only one? I don't know of any others.


I have mixed views on Metheny. I've seen him live a few times. He was great when he stuck to playing the guitar but at one show he had some huge robot hybrid thing that took up half the stage that made the most horrible sound. I like his music when its more more stripped down like 80/81or the trio records - Trio 99-00 is a favourite as is Question and Answer with Dave Holland and Roy Haynes. On the other had I've also got Secret Story which is a little too syrupy sweet for my tastes.

There are places on 80/81 where you're reminded of how influenced has was earlier on by Ornette Coleman. - it must only have come out a few years before he made Song X. In a I've never heard the Sign of Four record he made with Derek Bailey but just knowing it exists is quite intriguing.
 
well that's one thing I was wondering about - whether Metheny and Garbarek had every played together - excellent, thanks.

yes - his 'Metheny Group' was / is something of a curious concoction, particularly when you hear stuff like 80/81 and his Ornette recordings. Have seen 'em once live in London myself.
Always a classy sound with some very thoughtful compositions, but over-produced and somehow falling between a number of stools (if I can use that expression) perhaps.
Probably at their best in the early days in front of US college audiences, where something of a rock concert atmosphere would get going (from an interview in Wired I remember reading yonks ago).

And, yep, there and up Metheny pops doing a recording with Derek Bailey, as you would, in between making guest appearances on Live Aid US (he did, with Santana!) etc.

Question and Answer is v. good - but I have a feeling that was the first album (to my hearing) upon which the dreaded synth guitar reared its head - one track, possibly the last one.
 
very interesting Fuller - thanks for the link. Great extensive piece with all sorts of interesting / enlightening quotes and comments.

Bit sad to hear Metheny repeating (effectively) the US bullshit mantra about euro jazzers not being able to swing (reading between the lines). Wonder if that too is why Jarrett turned his back on his ecm quartet ...
anyhow - great read. Thanks again for posting that.
 
80/81 is one of my all time faves. Just transcendent. It's one of those albums that never gets played unless I'm able to listen with zero distractions because once I start it I cannot stop it!
 
Never really bothered with Metheny, think I have a compilation on vinyl but nothing else. May give this one a try.
 
hope you enjoy it Woodface - it's not like his 'Pat Metheny Group' stuff, more, 'straight-ahead', jazz musicians in a room playing together, sort of thing. Not as produced / arranged as the 'Group' stuff.
But as boneman says, it transcends any suggestion that might imply of yer jazzers playing the usual heads and changes. It's very distinctive, organic and of a piece overall, despite considerable variation in terms of individual track content and style. Metheny's folk-ish solo guitar piece that finishes the album underlining that somehow, with aching, accessible, lyricism.

Really enjoyed the articles / interviews Fuller and pauffromcamden - thanks again for posting those links.
 
Funnily enough although I was familiar with '80/81' I've never owned a copy and just landed a decent second hand vinyl copy from Discogs yesterday by coincidence.

Pat is one musician I admire that I have never seen live and would like to. His latest "From This Place" is worth a listen and can be sampled on Bandcamp (also there are a number of ECM artists on Bandcamp (Music | ECM Records (bandcamp.com))

Intriguing mix of styles in all his work - the melody of 'James' on 'Offramp' is one of my favourite pieces of contemporary (if 1982 qualifies!) jazz. This is also on his ECM 'Works' compilation which is a good starting point for anyone unfamiliar with his stuff (also includes a couple of tunes from '80/81' too including the lovely 'Every Day (I Thank You)' mentioned above.)

I remember the old heads in Ray's Jazz in Shaftesbury Avenue marvelling at how many copies of 'Song X' they were shifting when I bought mine. It had just had a glowing review in the NME of all places.

If you want your mind blown try to find 'Zero Tolerance For Silence' - its a hard listen but completely different to anything else in his output (or at least in my experience.) Maybe there is the Derek Bailey connection?
 
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