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401 301 simple tweek

E

Errol

pfm Member
Did this yesterday after reading about it a few weeks ago on another site and only getting the Isopropol alcohol off a mate yesterday. It involves cleaning the idler wheel and platter internal rim where the idler wheel runs
You need,
Iso alcohol
WD sandpaper 320/240
paper towel
cotton buds
Remove platter and clean inside with Iso till towel has no residue (black marks), check for any bumps, if any sand with 600 WD to remove. Clean with Iso again.
Switch speed to 45, start and gently hold 320/240 paper against rubber wheel changing the positions on the paper till it sands clean. I changed postions about 8 times till there was just a small amount of residue left on the paper.
Saturate a cotten bud with iso and gently clean idler wheel till no residue is left on bud.
Saturate another bud with Iso and clean motor shaft where idler wheel runs.
When dry replace platter, put on a record, gently lower arm on to the record, sit back and enjoy.
Comments invited
Regards
Errol.
 
I get the impression that's pretty similar to what Loricraft do, certainly the cleanness of the idler, spindle and inner platter is critical. My Loricraft serviced 301 is up to speed within a quarter turn or so of the platter, it has astonishing torque. I've also seen Garrards that take an age to lumber up to speed, and to my mind that can't be right. Every now and again I give the inner platter and idler a rub with Isopropyl myself just to keep it all as clean as I got it back from the service.

It's easy to get a Lenco to start up just as fast, certainly my L70 does, though I'm really struggling to get similar torque out of my TD-124. That one takes a good few revolutions to get up to speed. I strongly suspect the idler is slipping a little on the intermediate wheel, though everything is spotlessly clean so I'm not sure how to proceed - I've already serviced the motor and replaced the grommets and belt. The motor itself is performing perfectly; quiet and has plenty of torque - energy is being lost in the transmission somewhere. It doesn't really matter as it works fine, i.e. plays records nicely, but I suspect it should start up closer to the way the 301 does. I may treat it to a new idler at some point.

Tony.
 
I give my 401 innards a yearly thorough clean and a monthly touch up. It does make an appreciable improvement. I've never used an abbrasive though - I'm a bit concerned (scared!) about that. It really does improve the torque or grip which is clearly audible.

The same applies to Lencos of course - and one would assume EMTs.

On a related note has anyone tried a new or re ground idler wheel, if so with what results? Mine doesn't seem worn unevenly and is still supple - but how do we know when they need changing?

JK
 
yep - also applies to emt idlers - though I'd also be hesitant about using an abrasive on the idler.
 
rahman said:
yep - also applies to emt idlers - though I'd also be hesitant about using an abrasive on the idler.
Click to expand...

I used the sandpaper (320) very, very gently and I don't think I removed any rubber. The amount of black deposit that came of the idler wheel was quite surprising, considering that the wheel is brown rubber, which suggests to me that it is shed from the rim. Before doing this I could see the deposit on the wheel, it was a dull grey colour, I don't think it had ever been cleaned. I gave it a wipe with a clean cloth months ago, but nothing else. The wheel is now back to brown.
As far as the change in sound quality was concerned it was dramatic and all for the better.
I would suggest that this cleaning of the idler wheel, rim motor shaft is one of the most important maintenace jobs that is required on a 301/401, the benefits are extraordinary in relation to time, effort and cost. In fact I would go as far as to say that along with a decent plinth this proccedure is essential to extracting the best sound from your Garrard. However once sanded I feel that a monthly clean with Iso would be enough to keep the wheel in good condition.
I used the description "extraordinary" to convey my delight in how the music improved, after what, in reality, is a very simple cleaning proccedure.
The Garrard 301/401's are truely wonderfull machines and to think I had mine in storage for 5yrs because I thought to get it up and running was a "to hard basket" job
Fool that I was.
Errol.
 
I had my 401 back to Loricraft a few years back for a small service. Terry gave it the all clear and commented on how quiet it ran, plus he kindly gave me a 50ml. supply of lub. oil.

I've just done the above clean up routine and I've got to say it is easy to tell the improvement. My test disc is Fleetwood Mac Rumours so I do know how it should sound.

I was very light on the abrasive paper but cleaned well with IPA. "Yes" I do feel it's well worth doing although the idler wheel on my 401 is in excellent condition and supple.

Sound improvements are difficult to discribe but it is better, that's for certain, I gave the bearings a drop of oil at the same time so i'm happy with the result.

Final comment is the run up time, It was good but now it seems quicker getting up to speed and that reflects in the adjustment.
 
I remember reading a comment somewhere from Martina of Loricraft, who was demonstrating at some High End show how much better a 301 could sound with the inner rim polished to a mirror finish. Wish I could find the link :(

Sounds like a very worthwhile and cheap tweak to me.

It's so cool to see these old decks still getting tweaked and still holding their own again the new designs!
 
My understanding of the German copy of the EMT 927 / 930 service manual is that:

Idler wheel, motor spindle and inside surface of platter that idler runs against should be cleaned with alcohol and a cloth that doesn't leave fibres behind.

After cleaning the idler with alcohol they recommend leaving it 24 hours before use due to the rubber absorbing some of the alcohol.

They also advise you to be very careful about not splashing any oil onto the idler wheel and not touching the idler rubber with your bare hands.

And as Rahman quite rightly says, I wouldn't use abrasive on my EMT idler wheel. If it got that bad I'd replace it at a cost of about £100.
 
Hi,
The idler has no efect on the speed so sanding it isn't a problem, i used to sand idlers on Rock-ola jukeboxes all the time (they still sounded crap).

Pete
 
valveheaduk said:
I remember reading a comment somewhere from Martina of Loricraft, who was demonstrating at some High End show how much better a 301 could sound with the inner rim polished to a mirror finish. Wish I could find the link :(

Tony is the inner rim of your 301 polished?
Errol
Click to expand...
 
Errol said:
Tony is the inner rim of your 301 polished?
Click to expand...

It's certainly very clean:

2894393033_6281c84db2_o.jpg


Tony.
 
lenco recommended carbon tetrachloride on the platter, idler and motor pulley and this made it absolutely slip-free.

P.S. To anyone with standard Garrard 301/401 thrust bearings - don't over-lubricate the bearing assembly, as it causes the thrust assembly to rotate in the bearing, causing momentary drag.
 
DSJR said:
P.S. To anyone with standard Garrard 301/401 thrust bearings - don't over-lubricate the bearing assembly, as it causes the thrust assembly to rotate in the bearing, causing momentary drag.
Click to expand...

I remember you mentioning this previously, though I see a problem given the design as oil tends to move downwards in the bearing and it is essential to keep the top bushing saturated given the side-thrust from the idler drive - my main concern logically with the Garrard (and Lenco / Thorens) is the bearing shaft scoring due to a dry top bushing. I've kept my 301 bearing very well lubed so far, i.e. as much as I can get in the thing. I realise the felt washer feeds the top bushing to a degree, but I've erred on the side of too much oil so far. I use the old Lenco tweak of sealing up the lower part of the bearing with grease to stop leaks. So far this seems to have stopped the thrust assembly rotating. The last time I cracked it open the thrust assembly was nicely 'stuck in' with the grease so it seems to work. I'll give it another strip down when I get to set the deck up in it's new plinth just to make sure it's still ok.

Tony.
 
Ok, combination of a really bad day and a senior moment but I need this explaining again.

Tony, are you saying you have put some grease (which type) under the felt pad and then soaked it in oil? Did you hear a difference compared to before you put the grease on?

DSJR, are you saying that too much oil causes the felt pad to rotate?

Or am I way off track here?

Thanks guys - really crap day!!

JK
 
JimKempton said:
Tony, are you saying you have put some grease (which type) under the felt pad and then soaked it in oil? Did you hear a difference compared to before you put the grease on?

DSJR, are you saying that too much oil causes the felt pad to rotate?
Click to expand...

No, we are both talking about the other end of the bearing, the bottom. A bit of grease over the gasket stops oil leaking. The felt washer and bronze bushings must be oil lubricated, grease would be a very bad thing in sintered bushings as it would block the pores and stop them functioning correctly.

Tony.
 
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