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35mm B&W film. What's around and good now?

I very much like the Ilford films, used them for many years. Have tried Kentmere films as a more economical choice. Also very good, but I think lacks a little contrast. Always developed in ID-11 or Xtol.
There has been a lot of talk about Cine Still film on other forums, temped to try it, but at nearly 13 quid a roll......
 
My favourite is FP4, has anyone tried the Ilford Ortho film? Looks quite contrasty and apparently reds and oranges are almost black.
 
My first job was with part of ICI that had originally been a joint venture between BX Plastics and Ilford, set up to make cellulose tri-acetate film base (no silver coating) for use by Ilford. Before that Ilford had to buy from competitors.

When the ICI business was starting to wind down, the huge majority of B&W film base for Ilford was destined for press photography and at that stage, early 1990's, they were using something like 2 tonnes of film base PER DAY (rolls of base film were supplied to most customers at around 1100mm wide, 250-1000m long).
The ICI wind down all but coincided with Ilford moving from Brentwood to Mobberley in Cheshire, sale by Ciba Geigy to IPC and all of the long-standing silver photography companies contracting. It was the start of digital photography and the www. The factory had LONG since supplied 3M Ferrania but Kodak and Agfa came calling. When the acetate film plant closed, Agfa in particular bought some parts of the production machines.

I am more than totally amazed that any silver photographic company can still finance development. The fact that any are still in business is astonishing to me. Camera films were a TINY percentage of their business since the 1960's and all of the other uses are now dead, replaced by "digital" technologies. For instance - the ICI company sold several 100 tonnes of X-ray base film to a single customer - Sakura Brazil, per year. And they were just one customer. (Ilford were forced out of the x-ray film market by the silver price boom of the 80's (date?), when one of their buyers panicked and near bankrupted the company. They also rationalised their products at that time and dumped almost everything but b&w camera film and print paper and film - Cibachrome.)

Who still makes photo grade acetate film, I have no idea. Presumably Agfa? 3M? kodak? But it will be a smaller than tiny business.
 
Vinny said:
I am more than totally amazed that any silver photographic company can still finance development.
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Film photography is booming with the younger demographic.

In my age group (30s) many of my friends have sold or given away their digital SLR and gone back to film. I myself have gone back to film completely. I happily use my android phone for digital photography duties. I enjoy 35mm and medium format, and I'll soon dip my feet in 5x4. I'm processing my own BW and I've recently started with my doing my own C41. I'm having so much fun.

In the younger age group (teenagers to 20 somethings) many creative types have never owned a DSLR altogether, or a digicam for that matter. I personally know a few people in their twenties who have _started_ their photographic journey with an old Pentax K1000, an Olympus OM1, a Mju, a Yashica T3. Many of these young artistic types are enthusiastically buying film and doing their black and white as well as C41 processing. They are actively buying film, chemistry, scanners.

Foma film in Bohemia makes their own film and chemistry - exclusively silver-based, just like Ilford. It's gorgeous stuff. They seem to thrive. Kodak Alaris have released new E6 film in both 35mm and 120. Ilford has released a new orthocromatic film in 35mm and 120. I've used it - fantastic. All of these companies are not only manufacturing - they are investing in novel products and ideas.

There is a market for film photography - I would say somewhat akin to the resurgence of vinyl records. This is to an extent driven by 'Instagram' and 'Youtube' personalities, themselves in their 20s, who document their film photography journey, produce reviews, test new film, etcetera.

The key here is that a new generation of photography fans is actually purchasing cameras to _use_ them, not to collect them in a cabinet. This means that companies making consumables have a window for making profit.

Long live film photography :)
 
Somewhere online there must be figures for silver going into photographic films - I would bet that it is less than 1% of what it was 40 years ago, I'd not be surprised if it was less than 0.1%.

The industrial uses of silver films are NEVER coming back and they were the huge majority of the business.

Find me a manufacturer of the cellulose films needed for camera films. 40 years ago there were numerous, all producing 10's tonnes per day.

For information - VERY few uses for clear thin plastic films (to around 200 microns), did not change to polyester film before the 1970's, but camera film stayed with acetate because acetate is far more easily ripped/torn. In the event of a camera jam, you loose a roll of film. Use polyester and you potentially loose the camera. B&W camera film is almost certainly still based on 135 micron cellulose triacetate film.

The density of acetate film is going to be around 1g/cm^3. Work out how may 36 exposure 35mm camera film rolls that is when it is just Ilford's use of 2 tonnes per day.
 
Apologies, I'm not following.

Is your point that the photographic material available for purchase today is of inferior quality compared to the ones available 40 years ago?

This is a genuine question - I'm not trying to be flippant. I'm trying to understand if you are claiming that the quality of the finished product in a film-based photography setup correlates with the amount of silver density in the film stock.

By the way it would appear that high-silver content film is still being manufactured, for example, by the German company ADOX

http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-films-2/adox-silvermax/

from the description:

"ADOX SILVERMAX is an orthopanchromatically sensitized B/W film with classical grain and a sensitization optimized for greyscale separation. The film is made from two separate emulsions in a single layer coating and yields a very large exposure latitude.

SILVERMAX has an increased silver-content compared to regular negative films. This enables him[sic] to built up a DMAX of >3,0 if reversal developed or reproduces up to 14 zones"


Vinny said:
Somewhere online there must be figures for silver going into photographic films - I would bet that it is less than 1% of what it was 40 years ago, I'd not be surprised if it was less than 0.1%.

The industrial uses of silver films are NEVER coming back and they were the huge majority of the business.

Find me a manufacturer of the cellulose films needed for camera films. 40 years ago there were numerous, all producing 10's tonnes per day.

For information - VERY few uses for clear thin plastic films (to around 200 microns), did not change to polyester film before the 1970's, but camera film stayed with acetate because acetate is far more easily ripped/torn. In the event of a camera jam, you loose a roll of film. Use polyester and you potentially loose the camera. B&W camera film is almost certainly still based on 135 micron cellulose triacetate film.

The density of acetate film is going to be around 1g/cm^3. Work out how may 36 exposure 35mm camera film rolls that is when it is just Ilford's use of 2 tonnes per day.
Click to expand...
 
albireo said:
I'm trying to understand if you are claiming that the quality of the finished product in a film-based photography setup correlates with the amount of silver density in the film stock.
Click to expand...

I have less than no idea where you got that from.

Making an LP has not changed for very many years - same machines being used even. Most pressing plants/mastering facilities closed but a few factories stayed in business and now run flat-out. One mastering facility recently burnt-down and the near end of the LP was forecast. Rumours circulate that Sony may build a record plant.

The silver halide film business was IMMENSE and NONE of the lost business is coming back, ever. Camera film was only ever a minute pimple on the backside of the business, except for post 1980's Ilford. All of the companies traditionally made x-ray, graphics arts (print intermediate), silver microfilm and many other silver films besides - Ilford/Ciba even had a near stranglehold on one high quality print technology called helioklishography (or however it is/was spelt, it was 100's tonnes per year), which was a BIG money maker back in the 80's/90's. It is all no more. There was even a huge market for surveillance films.

You either charge a relative fortune for what product you can still find a market for, and/or reduce enormously your business, and/or cease trading. How do you finance major R&D in any of those scenarios, especially where the final customer no longer has any influence as they are now umpteen steps down the food chain?

Silver content...…………..
In the heyday of silver films, all was thrown at REDUCING silver content but achieving the same effect/capability, admittedly largely driven by economics.

The whole thing is like expecting revolutions in sealing wax or vellum manufacturing technologies.
 
I must have missed that edition :)
I completely blanked that Ortho would be referring to orthochromatic, I got hung up on the medical use of the word for some reason.
Anyway at 2-3 times the price of FP4 at my local shop I wasn't too keen.
 
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