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30,000 barrier broken

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Richard Lines, Sep 23, 2022 at 6:46 AM.

  1. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    Yes I know!!! My point is that isn't going to change whoever is in charge, they're all feckless idiots!
    ks.234 likes this.
  2. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    That's just the way you choose to read it so I'd suggest the problem therein lies more with you?

    We are no nearer a solution for this than a great many other 'challenges' in this country and I'm far from convinced that what came out of today's budget is really going to address an ever increasing list of challenges in the UK. You don't need to be particularly brainy to know that the challenge you don't deal with today will almost certainly be bigger tomorrow and the day after that a fresh challenge will arise.

    It isn't an issue of being right or left wing, racist or otherwise per se it is the country's failure to accept the challenges and deal with them which we seem to be missing.

    I see we now don't have enough of the right people to build renewables so we are apparently wanting to relax immigration rules so we can import suitably qualified individuals - Why are we not training our own engineers/ doctors/ nurses etc. in sufficient numbers (and remunerating them sufficiently) in this country?

    I despair.


  3. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Nigel Farage is a professional racist. He has made a long career and a lot of money out of xenophobia, ethnic nationalism and his own nicotine-stained brand of diluted public school fascism. He should be filed with all the other professional racists such as Steve Bannon, Marine Le Pen, Donald Trump, Alex Jones and all the various ‘great replacement/QAnon’ Fox News propagandists. All of whom he seems friendly with. Everything he states is factually wrong and morally repugnant. His demographic is racist scum and those will be the ones commenting on his Youtube videos. Ignore.
    Nick_G, Wolfmancatsup, Dozey and 2 others like this.
  4. richardg

    richardg Admonishtrator

    I understand language is one key reason why many refugess don't claim asylum in France. But of course many more do claim asylum in France than UK (I think about double), so the claim that they all want to come here for easy benefits etc and that they should claim asylum in France doesnt work that well.

    If I was a refugee, I'd try and find somewhere that speaks a language I can speak too. Sod the rules abdout claiming refugee status as soon as you are on safe ground. Imagine navigating all that and not understanding anything that was going on around you.

    There are a few others, eg they know someone in UK, but the language issue is a big one. Shame really because most of UK is a shithole compared to most of France.

    The UK media might stop reporting it without some context, it seems to stoke up bad vibes.

    You can tear up passports for me and let anyone live anywhere.
    ff1d1l and droodzilla like this.
  5. Monitor Gold 10

    Monitor Gold 10 pfm Member

    A few years ago, I was a Bus Driving Instructor. One of the elements we had to train for was Module Four; a Demonstration-based Test.

    I was training for the Cross Border Checks part of it one day, when one of the Trainees said that hiding within a Coach Chassis was how he got to the UK.

    A lot of colleagues and other trainees used to make jokes about the Cross Border Checks. I didn't because I didn't think it was funny.

    And I'm glad because we had an engaging conversation with a fellow human being about an experience we'd never want to go through ourselves.

    They are still working here and they have a blemish free record; a model employee.
    Nick_G, ff1d1l, twotone and 4 others like this.
  6. laughingboy

    laughingboy pfm Member

    Our capacity to absorb asylum seekers needs to be looked at in the context of national population projections.

    The UK's fertility rate averages around 1.75 these days, whereas the replacement rate is just above 2.0 (see ONS source below). These numbers tell us that we are not having enough babies to maintain our population. This stuff is never reported, but it's true.

    Of course we can accommodate asylum seekers. These are people fleeing persecution, remember; it is our moral duty as well as an economic benefit.

    PhilofCas and Seanm like this.
  7. richardg

    richardg Admonishtrator

    As things automate, why is it necessary to replace dead people?
  8. paulfromcamden

    paulfromcamden Baffled

    So they can pay tax?

    *tip toes away from thread*
  9. richardg

    richardg Admonishtrator

    but there won't be enough jobs for them
  10. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    We need to reduce the planet's population not maintain it simply because it is the only way we can see to pay pensions or whatever going forward......... faulty economic model that needs changing me thinks


    Dave Decadent and Dozey like this.
  11. laughingboy

    laughingboy pfm Member

    Fine, but both things can be true - we have the capacity to absorb asylum seekers even as population declines.
  12. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Lots of significant activities can’t be automated - care, mostly.
  13. palindrome

    palindrome Thru a hedge, backwards and forwards.

    I hadn't realised there was a barrier to be broken. 30,000 seems pretty much an arbitrary figure. Where does it come from @Richard Lines?

  14. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    I continue to be fascinated by the supposedly educated people on this forum living in a bubble and not wanting to identify the root causes/ drivers of the immigration. We are doing nothing to address them. As more and more of the world is impacted by climate change (let alone other causes) and peoples start moving to find a better life(?) and even if the world population were to remain static that same population will be occupying an ever decreasing space.

    A bit like UK house prices the current situation can't continue indefinitely. You can start planning for some kind of orderly change or you wait for the chaotic breakdown...............

    I have made this point before.


  15. palindrome

    palindrome Thru a hedge, backwards and forwards.

    Nice dodge; doesn't address my question though, Richard. Do you have a preferred limit on how many people should be allowed to stay in the UK?

    Let me guess, the bit of your post I've put in bold was aimed at me. You assume too much . . . in your supposition concerning bubbles and the wants of people on this forum (you're not the only one to do so); though I'm flattered you find me fascinating (sic).

    As a generalisation I actually agree with much of what you write, but with a neo-fascist Tory government in-situ who's beliefs and priorities have once again been hammered home with todays 'mini'-maxi budget, the chances of these particular issues being addressed in a practical and humanitarian way in coordination with governments of other nations, is zip.

    Maybe we need a general election and Starmer as PM before anything positive can be done. Who knows? . .

  16. richardg

    richardg Admonishtrator

    But lots more can: manufacturing, transport, design, acting, music production, food service, building, gardening, farming, warehousing.....
  17. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Root causes are war, economic deprivation and climate change, not population growth. I would love these issues to be addressed but they won't be in the UK, because that would involve binning off the arms and fossil fuels industries, winding down our armed forces, increasing overseas aid and cancelling debt. If you've ever voted Tory, well, you've been voting for very emphatically not doing any of these things, for ruling out the very possibility of ever doing any of these things. Population growth is a red herring, channel crossings are a red herring. If these are the problems then the solutions are mass culls and impenetrable borders. Very dangerous fantasies.
  18. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    The UK majors in the service industries, which are harder than most to automate, and in shit jobs, which are cheaper not to automate. You could argue that all that should change, and I'd agree, but still we have an ageing population that is going to require a lot of care, and care work isn't really open to automation or efficiency savings. A shrinking population is going to be a problem.
  19. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    Britain had the largest empire ever. Brits took over countries and did some good and much bad: visas were not required ! This is payback time...take the rough with the smooth old chap.
  20. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    The Afghans (and before them Syrians) that my mum is responsible for are in hotels in Edinburgh, it is taking ages to re-home them most of those who were evacuated are still in hotels.

    The main barrier is the majority will only live in certain cities, the main three being Manchester, Birmingham and London. My mum has acquired lots of nice family homes from a mixture of generous landlords, charities and local authorities, some are even ex MOD houses- then she has them all refurbished and is in charge of getting them here and settled into the community. Unfortunately all these houses are still empty because they don't want to come to the east Midlands, they've been turned down by dozens of families now.

    She did manage to get one family down here and moved in but after the first night they claimed it was haunted and demanded to go back to Scotland. They were told it was too late and that they'd signed for and accepted the house but they were adamant and eventually went AWOL, she had the police looking for them but a week or so later they arrived back at the hotel in Scotland.

    She is still in the process of acquiring and preparing more houses but if they won't come then they won't come.

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