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30,000 barrier broken

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Richard Lines, Sep 23, 2022.

  1. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    Good Morning All,

    Although not quite top of the news items given the budget today but that is a new record for the numbers of people entering the UK via boats across the Channel that was set yesterday -

    We still need to find an answer for this in addition to the answers our esteemed Government is trying to find for a whole host of other issues.


  2. Dozey

    Dozey Air guitar member

    The answer is to provide free transport or at least easy access for migrants, and then deport the ones who don't meet your criteria following investigations.
  3. mjw

    mjw pfm Member

    A French academic commented on this around 10 years ago when he visited the Calais camps to interview the (mostly young male) residents. He concluded that France should “give them a shower, a suit and set them to work before all their talent leaves for the UK”.
    Perhaps he was talking bollox; certainly neither country seems to have even considered that approach.
  4. foxwelljsly

    foxwelljsly Me too, I ate one sour too.

    How do you stop them absconding whilst those investigations take place? How do you prove they are who they say they are, the age they say they are or come from where they say they come from? Or are seeking safety for the reasons they say they are? There are so many ways of playing this, it’s pretty much meaningless.

    It’s also illegal under international law to ‘detain’ anyone whilst these investigations are taking place unless you have evidence that they do not meet the entry requirements or are suspected of criminal activity.

    We have a duty under international law to accommodate those seeking asylum. Maybe our domestic law should place similar legal responsibilities on the state to it’s own citizens?
    Seanm likes this.
  5. JensenHealey

    JensenHealey pfm Member

    My understanding is that claimants of asylum are obliged to claim it in the first 'safe' territory they get to. Why are they not claiming asylum in the first EU landing point? or even earlier in some N African countries? and not even in France where they are queuing up to get to the UK.

    What is the magnetic attraction to here? Is it just because so many have been before that they can find 'family' here already? Or some economic factor? Or they reckon they could do 'better' here - thinking that the streets are paved with gold and all that? Or that the UK is more welcoming to other ethnicities than, say, France?
  6. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    The Uk does not have more asylum seekers than elsewhere.
  7. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    And your understanding is wrong.
    It is a right wing trope that is repeated ad nauseum.,first safe country they reach.
    rbrown, Bananahead, ff1d1l and 7 others like this.
  8. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    rbrown, ff1d1l, Somafunk and 7 others like this.
  9. paulfromcamden

    paulfromcamden Baffled

    Thanks for posting that link Bob. This section struck me:

    Are there many refugees and asylum seekers in the UK?
    No. According to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), by the end of 2018 there were 126,720 refugees, 45,244 pending asylum cases and 125 stateless persons in the UK.
    That’s around one quarter of a percent (0.26%) of the UK’s total population.

    All the other problems facing us as a nation and people choose to get bent out of shape about the arrival of a small number of desperate people fleeing war and persecution.

    I don't see our moral obligation to help people in dire straits as a 'problem' to be solved. I just thank f*ck I've never found myself having to pack up what I can carry and make a run for it.

    Refugee Action seem like good people - I've just donated a few quid.
  10. Darren

    Darren Doin' the Southern Freeeez

    This would certainly be my own solution.
  11. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Agreed. The UK is a very rapidly declining and increasingly isolated economy with an ageing population. We desperately need younger skilled workers and a lot of refugees are precisely that. It is insane listening to old NF-grade racists like Farage etc, this is an economic opportunity that we need to staff the NHS, pay pensions etc. As ever immigration is a net economic gain.

    Plus the humanitarian aspect, obviously. Despite the UK’s long history there is no actual need for us to be a bunch of racist shitheads. It isn’t a requirement of citizenship regardless of what the far-right tabloids say.
    Nick_G, twotone, lordsummit and 4 others like this.
  12. laughingboy

    laughingboy pfm Member

    ks.234 and Seanm like this.
  13. Jono_13

    Jono_13 Duffer

    Oh well that means there's 170,000 spare places still available from those who have died as a result of COVID then..

    I'm not sure if you meant this to come across as a bit racist and right wing, but it does.
  14. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    One answer would be to open up more safe routes. Here's the Refugee Council on what that might look like:

    The Channel stems from the government deliberately blocking safe routes by which people can claim asylum. We can speculate as to why they're doing this but I'm going to go with some mix a) callous, incompetent kowtowing to our toxic press and b) deliberate creation of a migration spectacle: they manufacture a threat, then respond to it with the kind of vivid cruelty that appeals to the core Tory vote.
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr, ks.234 and Jono_13 like this.
  15. oldius

    oldius Manchester City, dogs, family and food.

    When I lived in Romania, one of the biggest economic worries was the declining population. We have a wonderful opportunity to embrace here, but we have to invest in the infrastructure that allows us to properly care for an expanding population. We won't do that while the UK is the recognised global leader in tax avoidance, reportedly 'doing more damage to international tax agreements than any other nation', and now with an estimated 21 trillion pounds hiding in the UK territories. So, what this government does is this: it closes the safe and legal routes to claim asylum, thereby declaring most arrivals as illegal; it allows Bermuda based mainstream newspapers to trot out innumerable 'dinghy' stories, thus raising the alienation of the arrivals and the frustration of those who cannot access services that are not being properly invested in; and it buries its own incompetence by blaming other countries and their failure to take on board their fair share of asylum seekers, trotting out a false narrative that people have to claim asylum in their first safe place of arrival. Oh, for an honest, free press.

    We are also one of the leading exporters of arms to the Middle East, helping to create desolation and death, yet we then don't want the consequences of our actions arriving on our doorstep seeking help. We are a bizarre, and at times ignorant lot.
    Nick_G, Mullardman, ff1d1l and 8 others like this.
  16. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    I don't think we're geared up for it, either at a national or local level, we can't even run services supposed to look after our own poor nevermind everyone else's.

    I'm all for anyone coming here and just cracking on with things, but our political system couldn't run a bath so it would just be chaos.
  17. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    The whole point is these folk are likely to be young and economically productive, often highly skilled. The folk fleeing Assad’s bomb sites in Syria etc are likely to be highly educated and could be productive here real fast. This isn’t a load of pensioners or drug-addicts, they are usually the younger sharper economically productive members of societies fleeing political instability and war. It takes a considerable aptitude to actually get out of such an environment. I’d actually view the act of getting here as an IQ/motivation test.

    The simple fact, and it can be googled for countless sources across the world, is refugees are a net benefit economically. They add value to an economy. The notion they are a burden is a total myth manufactured by a xenophobic far-right far too cowardly to admit it believes in crackpot white supremacist ‘great replacement’ theories etc etc. It is a fascist viewpoint. The reality is these people can become our of NHS workers, business entrepreneurs, teachers, scientists etc etc. Statistics prove they are not a drain.
  18. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley "It appears my intelligence circuits have melted"

    Quote - "People seeking asylum are not allowed to claim benefits or work in the UK. If they are destitute and have no other means of supporting themselves, they can apply to receive asylum support. This is set at around £5.66 per day."

    According to the Nigel Farage YouTube comments section, they all live in 5-star hotels, and get given a Ferrari each. Not that they need it, because they all come over in designer clothes and have top-of-the-range mobile phones. They claim to be 12 years old, when they are 30, and they push the women and children out of the way to get in the boats (hence why it's mostly men). And don't talk to me about our ex-servicemen, who get pushed out onto the street so Johnny foreigner has somewhere to live. Makes my blood boil, it does!

    The real truth:
    Some people from poor countries can save for a year, or more, to buy a mobile phone. But, regardless of how much money you have, If bombs are dropping, or bullets flying, you have to get out sharpish, and most people are going to grab their mobile phone on the way out.

    I understand that the reason you don't see many women and children in boats is because their partners obviously don't want them to risk the dangerous crossing. They try to claim asylum first, and then the plan is to bring them over safely.
  19. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    The only reason our public services can’t look after our own poor is political and ideological choice. Our politicians could choose to fund public services properly if they chose to do so.
  20. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    Yeah I know quite a bit about it as my mum is in charge of rehousing them, hence the comment about us not being geared up to do it!!
    zeon likes this.

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