whatsnext
Naimless
Prowla
What do you envisage as being carried other than binary data? And what affect on that which one hears would this extra load have?
£45 USB cable?
- Thread starter aquapiranha
- Start date
Prowla
What do you envisage as being carried other than binary data? And what affect on that which one hears would this extra load have?
It's already been covered: mechanical vibrations (microphony), power fluctuations (eg. from a PC), possible EM/radio interference (probably not so relevant IMHO, but some might argue otherwise), timing (depends upon how the DAC buffers/reconstructs the data stream), reflections (could impact the quality of the signal the DAC receives), and so-on.
All of those could affect the receiving DAC and/or the output signal from it.
Now, I am not saying that the above are discernable by everybody or anybody in all situations, but I am saying that the "Pah - a digital signal is a digital signal, end-of!" is not an absolute truth.
Also, the assertion that digital is perfect because files of digital content transfer perfectly over the physical medium of a digital cable (as they bloody well should or the world of data communications would not work!) is not the same as saying that that physical cable itself is perfect; neither is it saying that the content that makes up a file is the same that makes up a musical bitstream.
dave
Plywood King
I do not give a hoot about anyone's "tests". As we've seen in the past and will continue to see in the future, many of these so called tests have proven to be wrong in every field of science. If my ears pick up a clear a difference when comparing devices or adjustments, I'll make a choice and not fret, worry or lose sleep over my decision.
Regarding a difference between USB cables, I haven't compared them nor do I expect to in the near future, I'm referring to differences with analog cables involving vibration and/or their ability to transmit a signal faithfully.
regards,
dave
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
Aquapiranha is on a consumer crusader rant against consumers again.
albireo
pfm Member
So called experts on here and elsewhere have been trying to prove there is an effect for years without a single shred of evidence found that there is any at all. Manufacturers have been peddling rubbish for years claiming all kinds of magical properties without a single shred of evidence. There must have been hundreds of blind tests where no one could hear a difference yet when some can see the nice thick expensive wires with high price tags suddenly a veil is lifted.
More fool those weak enough to fall for marketing hype. It doesn't surprise me that fans of naim fall for it as they have been literally buying into it for years.
X 2
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Cables can and do make a difference, no doubt about that. The difference they make is in terms of L, C and R. In things like USB you could potentially benefit from removing noise on the 5v line.
Now who thinks you can filter noise already on a straight piece of wire by adding some clever braiding, or making it in silver, or shielding it, or using an electrically charged shield, etc etc etc. You simply can't. if you want to remove it add an in line USb filter.
Now who thinks you can filter noise already on a straight piece of wire by adding some clever braiding, or making it in silver, or shielding it, or using an electrically charged shield, etc etc etc. You simply can't. if you want to remove it add an in line USb filter.
Thighsofsteel
pfm Member
Can you show us a Double blind test that has been proven wrong please?
Are you familiar with any of the following work.
B. Atal, M. Schroeder, K. Kuttruff, "Perception of Coloration in Filtered Gaussian Noise Short-time Spectral Analysis of the Ear", 4th ICA , Copenhagen , Denmark 1962, paper H31.
F.L. Dimmick and R. M. Olson, '`The Intensive Difference Limen in Audition" JASA, vol. 12, pp. 517-525 (1941)
W. Jesteadt, C. C. Weir and D. M. Green, "Intensity Discrimination as a Function of Frequency and Sensation Level" JASA, vol. 61, pp. 169-177 (1977)
R. Reisz, "Differential Intensity Sensitivity of the Ear for Pure Tones", Physical Review, vol 31, pp 867-875 (1928)
Or any of the work of John D Pierce
dave
Plywood King
To repeat: "I do not give a hoot about anyone's tests."
whatsnext
Naimless
Then why do you have to keep saying it?
BTW those are studies not tests. Me Im open minded Im just not fussed by such small audible differences if any.
dave
Plywood King
Because it answered ThighsofSteel's question.
Values are something altogether different. I know folks who don't find the difference between grandpa's 1960's pocket radio and the world's finest hifis worthwhile but that doesn't mean there isn't a difference.
Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
In a way I can appreciate this POV. For example how many peeps who buy a car read up on the specs and tests before they buy? I do but SWMBO doesn't. I select a short list and she drives and inspects them and we buy the one that she likes and that meet her requirements.
I am sure that many people who buy HiFi are similar. They buy what they like and to hell what the specs are or what peeps on forums say.
Its then only when things don't work out as planned like my wifes friend who didn't realise that her engine oil needed to be topped up monthly for the mileage covered (yes I treble checked!). She arrived one day with a rattling engine with almost no oil left in the sump! My wifes car however doesn't need anything doing between services but we do check before a long journey.
Cheers,
DV
Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
Can anyone point to a single instance where a PFM member has changed their opinion on the matter of cables due to reasoned arguments put by other members?
dave
Plywood King
Thanks DV.
My (and the rest of the world's) way is called common sense. In the case of audio equipment, it's about evaluating the product in the manner in which it is used.
Funny, my wife is the analytical one researching everything to death before making a decision (based on logical conclusions I might add.) In virtually every case, her decisions have been no better than going by gut instinct (and often wrong by comparision.)
regards,
dave
My (and the rest of the world's) way is called common sense. In the case of audio equipment, it's about evaluating the product in the manner in which it is used.
Funny, my wife is the analytical one researching everything to death before making a decision (based on logical conclusions I might add.) In virtually every case, her decisions have been no better than going by gut instinct (and often wrong by comparision.)
regards,
dave
Thighsofsteel
pfm Member
You obviously didnt read my post or those articles. I ask are you familar with these articles or the work... Oh dont worry about it.
You may as well put your fingers in your ears and shout lalalalalala I cant hear you. That has as much basis as your argument.
dave
Plywood King
TOS,
I'm not familiar with the articles or authors...and no one is going all "lala." Again, if I hear a difference repeatedly, I will make a decision based on this evidence. It's that simple. I won't fret (or care) if science says there cannot be a difference.
HTH,
dave
aquapiranha
pfm Member
I prefer the title 'Defender of common sense and crusader against profit driven bullshit'.
dave
Plywood King
I prefer the title 'Defender of common sense and crusader against profit driven bullshit'.
That can be arranged but we'd prefer you'd get off the cross -we need the wood.