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£2.5k budget secondhand hi-fi advice

W

waterox

Member
Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on building a new hi-fi system with a budget of around £2.5k (I will be buying used/ex-demo items)

I will need floorstanding speakers with good bass extension down to about 30hz. My room is quite large.

Amplification and a DAC. Most if not all of my listening is now through spotify premium, and I will probably end up ripping my cd collection to lossless.

So far the PMC FB1i seems like a strong contender, and maybe Dynaudio Excite, Proac D18

For the amp I lean aesthetically towards the idea of having monoblocks though open to using an integrated amp or stereo power.

The Cyrus integrated with onboard DAC looks good and convenient but is so damn ugly.. :p

I wonder if I would need a preamp as well as power + DAC?



I listen to a very wide range of music: from indie rock/nowave, classic rock, metal, hip hop, dub, ambient, chillout, lounge, jazz, electronica, techno, classical, avant garde, minimalist, sonic art... really just about everything. So no overly polite classical-only oriented stuff. Rhythm and dynamics are very important to me as well as clarity, detail and finesse

I will definitely try to audition stuff but just wondered if anyone has strong opinions about where to look for the most bang for buck with this budget, and maybe brands/models that are known for being transparent and engaging across every musical genre, with excellent low end and preferably at all volumes
 
stevec67 said:
With that budget you can go virtually anywhere and do anything. Have fun choosing.
Click to expand...

You might be a little optimistic there... even if it is a decent budget to start out with.

You can blow that much on a secondhand pre... or one interconnect and a set of bi-wire speaker cables :)
 
Right now you can get excellent deals on ex-dem or second hand "new series" Exposure. Either their integrated Amp (Model 35) or the Pre/Power combo 23/28. These are sleek looking clean amps with plenty of power and the ability to sound good with everything you throw at them.
 
People will usually recommend what they have owned or what they like, so it is best if you can at least listen to some of these speakers and/or amps yourself and see what sort of sound you prefer.

Having owned the PMC LB1 Signature, generally I do not recommend the smaller models despite being transmission line speakers if you want deep bass. The LB1 Sigs that I owned sound forced in the bass. I've tried several amps with them to no avail. The bigger models sound a lot more effortless(EB1i) and can fill a big room but these speakers are in a different league altogether and do not fit in the picture.

I would take the Proac D18 in a heartbeat out of the ones you've listed, but then again I have soft spot for Proacs.

Good luck.

ps. I think you will burst the £2.5k budget if considering the whole lot -speakers, amp and DAC.
 
waterox,

I'm afraid I find your approach totally wrong. Do a bit of homework, go 'round and listen to some systems, at dealers or at other people's houses. Find a sound you like. Then try to get that sound in your home.

Right now, you are in the wilderness, ending up with a system that you'll like listening to would be a huge coincidence.
 
Have you considered dac/pre direct into active speakers? Something like the audiolab 8200cdq direct into actives would be a nice minimalist system.
 
muzzer said:
Having owned PMC FB1+ I would avoid the FB1i if you want deep bass.
Click to expand...

Really? I've no problems with them in my system/room.
And I'll second the recommend for Exposure 23/28 amps, particularly at the prices they seem to going for at the moment.
 
£2.5k was the budget I started out with approx 3 years ago, this had to include a turntable as well. During that time I have changed components many times, but am very close to a system I intend to keep for a long time with Speakers, Amp, TT all sorted. Only the digital front end and phono pre-amp has a question mark over it.

I have blown that budget of course, but not by a huge amount (maybe 20% max). I also did manage to do a little of wheeling and dealing along the way to get the best bang for buck.

I started with a load of classic kit, which I knew would have a good re-sale value - which was a bloody good job, cos they didn't work well together at all. Being in the West of Ireland, its very difficult to audition kit prior to buying, so was a very much a thumb in the air exercise at first. However, over time I have learnt a little on how kit fits together and the type of sound I was after.

Knowing the type of sound you like is IMO very important. Like you, I listen to a great range of music, and my personal opinion here is that a fairly transparent system is best to cover all these genres.

I think speakers are the most important to get right first, cos they need to integrate with your room, plus they are pretty hard to sell on should they be wrong. I have ATC's now which are pretty transparent and revealing which may suit you, not sure they go down to 30hz though. One option could be small standmounts partnered with a sub, heard people with good results with such a setup if integrated correctly.

Regarding DAC's, tbh I haven't found a massive difference between the many I have tried. With a good transport, I personally think a MF VDAC offers excellent value and I preferred it to the Dac Magic which I also owned for quite a while. The VDAC was less bright and revealing and worked better in my very revealing system at the time. It does need a good transport though if you are gonna be playing CDs.

I have heard many DACs and have an old Meridian on the way to me now, but still to hear one that I would spend big money on. Dacs like the Benchmark apparently work better with a poorer quality transports as it cleans up some jitter issues on board, but I have no direct experience of this.

Of course YMMV as always.
 
They had a reasonable amount for the average domestic living room but I would not say it was particularly deep, they may measure well on a test rig but in real life I thought they sounded small scale, its the small driver no amount of fancy transmission line loading can compensate for it. Ryder is right you need to look further up the PMC ladder esp the pro models with bigger drivers
 
Well, I will keep an open mind and of course will be demoing as much gear as I can get to.
The PMC IB1 looks amazing but way out of my price range.

As I mentioned I wont bother with cds to keep costs down. I can just rip them and play them back through a macbook into a DAC.

Thanks for the Exposure recommendations, I will check those out.

So maybe other speaker choices could be ATC SCM40, Dynaudio x28, B&W?
And I will definitely try to listen to the D18s

What do people think about the older naim gear? Any amps that have a bombproof reputation?
I'm thinking if theyre quite old I may get more for my money..
Other stuff I looked at included Musical Fidelity monoblocks and very old Krell or Levinson.
I've been checking choice, fleabay and gumtree..

Worth mentioning: I am also getting a pair of Dynaudio BM6a Mk I actives for another room where I do mixing. I will probably have really good dac in either the RMA/Apogee interface or a dedicated dac to go with an audio card. So I will be able to A/B pro studio dac with a hi-fi one. Will be interesting to see how much difference there is.
 
Can't really go wrong with older Naim its usually been well looked after, look for a serviced pre/power combo like a 72/250 or if you get a dac with a built in vol pot you could do away with the pre.
 
waterox said:
What do people think about the older naim gear? Any amps that have a bombproof reputation?
Click to expand...
It's generally well received here though some hate it. I don't like thge sound. If you do, well and good. Bombproof? Pretty well all of it is, though I did hear of a bloke who kept engaging the thermal trip because he listened to dance music at ear warping levels.
I'm thinking if theyre quite old I may get more for my money..
Click to expand...
Ha ha, yeah, right.

Other stuff I looked at included Musical Fidelity monoblocks and very old Krell or Levinson.
I've been checking choice, fleabay and gumtree..
Click to expand...
It all works. The thing is you want it to do everything. It will but only you will know whether the stuff you choose has a set of compromises that suit you.
 
Markus S said:
waterox,

I'm afraid I find your approach totally wrong. Do a bit of homework, go 'round and listen to some systems, at dealers or at other people's houses. Find a sound you like. Then try to get that sound in your home.

Right now, you are in the wilderness, ending up with a system that you'll like listening to would be a huge coincidence.
Click to expand...
Markus's advice is valuable.

Regards where to start in my humble opinion - pro gear seems to be where it's at regards value for money. Though the aesthetics may not always suit (doesn't really bother me), the results for money spent seem to be enormous, especially given that there are studios closing down all over the place selling off superb gear for small sums.

I'd start by seeking to demo a range of active monitors (which are unlikely to be floor standing) and later, pro DAC/Pre combos. Even if you reject the type of presentation from good pro actives, at least you'll be able to cross that option off your list based on experience.

If you're patient, I'd say you should be able to find some superb pro actives with an RRP of >£3000 for between £1000 and £1300.
 
If you like the idea of mono blocks - Michell Alecto's will drive a lot of speakers and are serviceable. Should hold their value pretty well too.
 
@Greg
Any specific recommendations for pro gear? I know PMC are quite often seen. Not a fan of genelec or huge tannoys.
I'm looking for transparency, but some monitors can become a hard listen after a while.
Anything pro with good low end is probably soffit-mounted or massive.
 
Nice budget .... If I were to start afresh with your budget, this is what I would be looking for:

speakers:

IMF TLS 80 II speakers matched pair .... seller has a buy it now of £1300 or best offer .... I have been watching these for a while now ... they never sold the 1st time at £1300 and are worth £900 in my books as they seem to be in reasonable condition.... he may accept £900 as christmas is close (I used to own a pair, so am speaking from experience) .... these do get listed often, and going price is in the £900 bracket ... these are 4 way transmission design

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IMF-TLS-80-II...omeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item3362e8a68b

herewith specs:

A free standing loudspeaker system measuring approximately 38 1/2" x 16" x 18" wide. Bass unit 11 3/4" x 8 1/4" flat polystyrene diaphragm loaded by transmission line, mid range unit 6" plastic cone containing in separate line, tweeter 1 3/4 " diaphragm and 3/4" chemical dome super-tweeter. Crossover electrical four way at approximately 375 Hz, 3.5 KHz and 13 KHz Frequency range from 20 Hz to beyond audibility. Fitted perspective control - see text - variation in impedance +-1 ohm @ 1.5 KHz. Efficiency measured via Pink noise 1 metre on axis: 40 watts produces 96dB. Nominal impedance matching 4 to 8 ohms. Driving power requirements 40 to 80 watts . Supplied in matched 'mirror-image' pairs in walnut

http://www.imf-electronics.com/Home/imf/speaker-range/reference-speakers/tls80


http://www.imf-electronics.com/Home/imf/speaker-range/reference-speakers/tls80

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amp:

A used Musical Fidelity A5 integrated .... I do not see any on ebay at the moment, but they do get listed often ... These sell for approx £900 in good condition (mint and boxed) .... 250 watts @ 8 ohms (or 400 watts @ 4 Ohms) ...

I have not heard one connected to the IMF speakers, but did have one on loan from a mate for a weekend and worked extremely well with my B&W DM2 transmission speakers and old Marantz CD63 MKII K1 signature speakers .... this amp will make the IMF speakers 'sing' IMHO
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interconnect:

Silver High Breed Quintessence .... these are as thick as a hosepipe, and am well pleased with mine .... have tried several interconnects on my system, and always come back to these ... £60 gets you a pair of 0,75m

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SILVER-HIGH-B...uting_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item27b6f4a66b
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speaker cable:

loads to choose from and you dont have to spend loads .... best that I have used (and still use) is the old Hitachi SSX 102K LC-OFC .... very hard to find now, but any good LC-OFC speaker cable will do a reasonable job

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so, based on the above, you would spend approx £1900 which includes the speakers, amp, speaker cable and interconnect .... that leaves you approx £600 for a DAC .... I am not clued up with DAC's and the only one I have heard is Musical Fidelity V-Dac which sells for approx £130

but good luck, and keep us posted on what you eventually choose!
 
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